Again this is only in larger games, but what you can see in the first 10 minutes is how poorly the Soviet player played, but how hard it was to stop them. They were able to blob up mgs and simply walk forward even though I had the counter (mortars) because of the FHQ buffs. You can also watch as buffs stack on one another in close proximity making units nearly impossible to kill.
This unit may work in lower player count games but in these higher player count games it is unfair. It may need to come out at a later CP point. The upgrade should also not be instant and you should have to be in your own territory. |
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Forward HQ used to allow poor play by Soviet player. |
This is an example of ISU vs Tiger that I was advocating. Tigers trump ISU once in range and overall can help you more than an elefant. German T3 like P4s are too fragile, and from skipping around, this ISU knocks out 3 of them before it is easily KO'ed by the tiger.
This is why I don't really find the ISU as OP as others do.
skip to 32:00
My game plan currently is to go T3, Stug III G then to Tigers.
I agree with other commentators that I suspect the skill level this works against is lower than your own.
Also you posted a video of a tiger ace defeating an ISU 152, and of course most players will be using a regular vanilla tiger, which is much harder to do this with. Don't forget the range increases the firing speed increases, and the accuracy increases that the vet brings to the table.
I have found in the larger games ISU-152's are all but unstoppable to anything but an elephant. Really, really boring meta right now. |
If the Ostheer sniper is trying to counter snipe a soviet sniper w/o cover that is bad play. If the Ost sniper is in cover he will recloak before you can get a shot off. As Daniel said, all it takes is one counter snipe to discourage a soviet sniper from running wild.
Ost sniper must be in heavy cover, anything else and he will not cloak fast enough.
Again it is completely fine that Ost sniper is hard countered or almost so by Soviet sniper. Ost snipe just needs to be terrific at killing support teams and Shocks. At the moment RNG and only moderate effectiveness limit Ost sniper's usefulness. |
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I think people are talking past one another.
Certainly in 1v1 this doctrine is probably fine. However, in team games it really shines.
Also on SOME urban maps this thing can be nearly impossible to kill. Trying playing against an organized team on Faceoff when they go T2 with one player placing FHQ's. They will get mortars and mgs and prevent both counters (Pios and mortars) from getting near the building. Meanwhile, they force all Ost forces to combine at one point and open up the map for capping. If they managed to OP a second house GG.
MHT might be an option but good teams keep leap frogging forward as they throw back attacks.
Lost a game where 6 buildings had FHQ at the end. We all tried to destroy the first one when we saw it, but we could not kill it fast enough. After that it was just a snowball effect. |
Thread: ISU-15222 May 2014, 19:53 PM
Did anyone try to pack some PGs with Schrecks in an M3 driving behind the ISU?
#Neverforget
In fact I did try this but AT guns with their infantry detection easily allow Soviet player to react before any real damage was dealt.
Lolz, realized you wrote M3. Did not try that, next time I will quit unless I can get some abandoned M3's.  |
If you place ger sniper in green cover, he will recover quicker then sov sniper can aim.
I am aware, that is what I alluded to in the rest of my post. There are other factors at work here though, if Ost sniper is spotted soviet sniper will not fire until he is vulnerable. Also T1 provides excellent hard counter in scout car.
I think it is fine if Soviet sniper outright beats Ost sniper, as long as Ost sniper becomes deadly against T2 as it should be. |
Show me a single competitive game rep where FHQ was used in either 1v1 or 2v2 and it wasn't "for the lulz".
You're better and more experienced then me, you shouldn't have a problem with that.
I use this doctrine sporadically and have yet to see a single streamer use it outside of 4v4.
Not to jump in here but in larger games, 3v3 and 4v4, if you see it there you know it is too good in that format. In which case to preserve its efficiency at lower levels all you would need to do is remove buffs to allied units.
I really don't like the mantra, balance 1v1 ignore everything else. Certainly balance 1v1, but the game is largely played in formats of large team games so they certainly deserve some time and balances to be made for them. |
Thread: ISU-15221 May 2014, 21:02 PM
Could be you were probably winning because he was saving up for those ISU's
"Even that was not enough"
The elephant is really just as much bs as the ISU in team games, especially with the scope and stuka bombs to hard counter any zis guns
I doubt he had such a large advantage on me in MP since I was saving for an elephant.
I am not here to argue the elephant is fair/well balanced, I am just here to talk about 152 since we are in that thread.
End game is sooooooooooooo boring in this patch. |
Thread: ISU-15221 May 2014, 19:07 PM
I also played an ugly 2v2 yesterday where I was winning until ISU152 came out. Deployed an elephant, but even that was not enough because he had mark target. Had to wait again to get 2nd elephant, since he had multiple ISU's. He got up to 3 152's at one point. Neither I nor my teammate could use any infantry, and even though he could not cap much with his two infantry squads it was ugly.
We finally won once I pushed him off the field, but if they had played a little better we would easily have lost. The win felt very hollow since it was so stupid to see 3 152's and 2 elephants duking it out. |
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