Profile of Imagelessbean

Be careful what you wish for. Some OKW units are almost unstoppable at vet 5 and Allied units must wipe them with indirect fire to fight. On the other hand some vet is not even noticeable (KT vet does little).

Sturms with shreks nearly guaranteed to get vet 5 as long as they survive.

If you think vet 5 is hard to reach on OKW I encourage you to watch some high level play. The Ostwind gets vet 5 in many games, and I have seen at top level play multiple of them with vet 4+ in a single game, not out of the range of reason at all.

Having vet also forces your opponent to dive for high vet level units, so while the unit may die forcing uneven trades results in stronger and stronger map control for the OKW player. For instance, losing a vet 4 Panther but requiring the trade of 3 cromwells is a trade up. Even though the next Panther will be vet 0 he is going to be looking at vet 0 croms as well. Vet is a tool and a resource.

Finally, comparing to Brit units, which have vet accelerators (tanks) or have minimally important vet (mortar pit) is a bad idea. Brits are also in line for some looks at their vet and vet gain speeds.


Pak 43 vet is hard to get because of its high priority for Allied players and its inability to move, not because it is hard to get there. If it does get to vet 5 if effectively means that any Allied tank that wanders into range is going to die, and that means IS2, ISU152, whatever. The RoF is so high and the range is noticeably longer. It also rotates so quickly even a damaged engine is enough to place your tank in real jeopardy.

There is difference from:

(to which I responded, since Shock have one of the highest DPS at ranges from 10->0) and that in practice one has move to "face huge".

And I am not sure what your problem with that is, Smg should be used at close range (1-10) leaving s room for assault rifles to be used at mid (10-20).

In addition Shock unlike other units have very high DPS on the move, they will do lots of damage while moving from range 10 to range 0.

The issue here is the difficulty in using shocks. For such a premium unit they sure don't feel premium. If our goal is to leave room for assault rifles we could easily reduce the price of shocks. Right now a unit with a huge premium and no ability to merge is just not going to be attractive.

Last thing here is that if a range is very rare, i.e., 10m, for infantry to fight in, then having a unit dedicated to this makes for very niche use. Since shocks are scattered amongst the commanders I would like to see them be more useful.

We are not talking about making them all carry 1919's.

Actually no. If you move closer then 10 you opponent will increased DPS while you will not. If your opponent moves back you can follow him and you still have an advantage because Shock have some of the best modifier for firing on the move.

Again Shock DO NOT have face hug opponent to have good DPS, they have one of the highest DPS from range 10.

You are assuming that approach of shocks are at the same speed as retreat of infantry. If your opponent soft retreats this is fine you can keep up, but Elchino has already pointed out the insane amount of micro this requires. However, most players as shocks get close will hard retreat, which means that they will rapidly outpace you. In this case being as close as possible at the first shot is the best solution and one of the reasons to close with shocks to 0 range.

You also should keep in mind that at 10 range, you are talking about a single model. The nearest model maybe at 10, but you have a six man squad. To get the most out of their DPS you need all models to be below 10 range. The only reasonable way to do this in most situations is to again face hug.

In theory you don't need to face hug, in practice, with multiple layers you do.

Hello Patrenko,

I will try to review this before Sunday. If I fail you will see it done by Torniks by that date.

Just as a warning, if he got to double Comet before you have enough tanks to stop this the game is fast approaching an end because Comets are over performing and in pairs this is extremely obvious. You probably bled out too much to the pits. For the mean time avoid fighting under the pit unless you plan to destroy it, even if this means giving up some map control. More helpful tips to come once I see the game.

Shocs have no reason to move closer then 10 since their DPS does not improve closer to that range so they should not facehug anything.

There is a huge advantage to continuing to move closer, in that your opponent will have longer time at max DPS. Stated another way, when he tries to get back, which he will, the shock DPS will remain high for longer if they have further to go.

Shocks just don't make sense right now, with their late arrival, lack of AT, and miserable damage at all ranges other than face hugger. Their huge cost and inability to effectively merge with scripts makes them expensive at all points in the game. Throw in that penals are much more efficient and you just won't see them. However, they are still good. Imagine if you could get them at 0CP's as long as you picked a commander. I suspect you would see them every game.

Shocks need a slight buff, they either need to be more survivable to close gaps or they need less punishing DPS drop offs. Changes to penals should also help to make them more attractive. Their extremely lack luster AT won't be a problem if they are truly amazing at their job of AI. Their vet 1 also should be replaced, probably by ranger like vet 1 which makes nades (or maybe just smoke nades) cool down faster.