I actually think that, if I had a blob and given two upgrade options- one AI and one AT- the result would be more diverse and versatile, but not in a blobbing way.
Take for example a blob of four Volks squads- either four schrecks or four STGs, they are pretty powerful. 2x of each may make them more versatile but also means that they are less effective against clumps of either.
You have just described riflemen. Maybe a blob of rifles with all bazookas backed by Shermans with HE is more effective than the current strat of BARs and AP Shermans.
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Maybe I left them behind actually balancing rather than knee jerk removal. |
Shrecks on Volks are totally OP. Now where did I put my two bazookas...? |
the way i see it is how many shots does it take to kill a usa tank with shreks and how many shots it takes to kill a okw tank with zooks. LOL!!! just makes me laugh how a the few of u think thats its fine. zooks need like 3-4 times the shells to kill a panther then a shreks to a E8
So balance them, don't remove them. Decrease range, descrease pen. Problem solved. |
Tbh, and I say this as a fan of the Volk schreks, the bazooka is garbage compared to the schreks when going against anything bigger than a Pz IV.
Yea, Axis armor is a bit tougher no doubt. Bazooka blobs still chase armor away, but it is less likely to kill than a shreck blob. But honestly, you throw in Brits and their armor is quite tough and can stand up to shrecks.
Bottom line, if there is a nerf needed, then reduce the effectiveness. Don't just remove the weapon. That is a cop out. |
Here is an experienced player making a special point of the outrageousness of each volks squad having 2 shrecks. It's laughable.
But this kind of shoddy understanding is typical of a paranoid obsession with volks blobs which possesses many players.
They have blown the whole issue up out of all proportion to the extent that a kind of superstition has developed which paralyses their play and results in a stubborn refusal to use the multiple available counters which verges on the masochistic.
Other than the bitching about it and the resultant decision by relic to react this is a non-issue in the context of the game and most definitely l2p.
Yea, that dudes post made me laugh.
1x shreck is OP, but 2x bazookas are fine?!
One can't be okay and the other not. |
Okay...
You missed it too. See my post above. I don't actually think that should be the case. I recognize that totally wasn't clear. I don't think either should lose their weapons because it makes the game interesting for them to have it.
I just don't get how it is okay on one faction, but OP on another. |
You´re too much in a wrong logic of if this W happens to my faction, then your faction must get that X. You're not going really far with that.
No, I think you missed my point. I have to draw parallels to another faction because this whole game is about competition. What irks me is that people are inconsistent and hypocritical in their complaining.
You cant say Volks blobs are OP because of handheld AT and then turn a blind eye to Rifle blobs. It is the exact same thing.
They tried that a little bit. They significantly lowered the accuracy of the shrek to make them less likely to alpha strike light vehicles into the ground. The issue persisted because of the sheer number of shreks that were likely to be around.
The issue with that was the volume of shreks. If you reduced them further they were individually unsatisfying and bordering on useless. When firing in a 4+ squad pack they were about right but you'd never use them unless in a pack.
The same thing happens with rifle blobs if they go for bazookas and there are more bazookas (160 dmg vs 120) |
Problem with USF blob is you remove what makes rifles being able to blob, ok. What next, how do you balance USF with other factions? If you modify USF Rifle squads stats and upgrades, you're modifying 50% of the faction units and strength. You make them equal or weaker with Grens while more expensive? Or you also modify Grens stats to keep the balance between both units? But if you mod Grens stat, you'll also need to mod Cons stats because they cost the same price and you finish with Tommies because you can't let them that strong.
OKW has no mainline infantry, saying volks are is an error, they're supposed to be the equivalent of Rear Echelon, the guys you send as meat shield or support, not the guy you send to do the dps stuff. So nerfing they DPS isn't an issue balance wise, because OKW has plenty of tools to do specific dps. Today it is an issue from player perspective because volks blob has always be the best way to use the faction.
I'm not saying OKW will not suffer from lacks or being underpowered with those changes, but the problem is how do you want to balance the faction and units if you don't get ride of the volks blob first. How do you know how well works the PUMA if nobody uses it. I can tell you the PUMA is a great under use unit, same as the Flak HT, that a great unit with couple of volks around to act as meatshield.
Now, to come back to USF, Rifle squads are unique combat infantry, no Sturmpioneer, no Obers, no pzgren, no UK superengineer, no Penals(if they get buff as the patch says) and only 2 doctrines providing elite troops, really expensive ones. The problem lies here, the non-choice available from design. Giving a Mortar is a first step, one mortar means 1 RM squad less on the field, or coming later, or less ATpower but gives early support option. Captain without free zook is another step, you need to save amo for your zooks so you can't only count on early BARs to do the AI dps, people will need to compensate the zooks delay with fuel unit dps like a M20 or HT. Or not upgrading zooks but early Atgun or Stuart.
The patch is interesting, not what I would have personally done, but it merits a try.
So, what mainline infantry is OKW supposed to field without a commander? Obers? Obers look great on paper but are lackluster in practice due to timing and cost. They can't vet up due to facing vet 3 squads and high tech units when they hit the field. Volks most certainly are the mainline infantry. But Volks have never been about DPS. They have been about utility. So instead to balance them they nerf their utility and make them about AI DPS. Dumb idea.
If Volks lose their shrecks, then Rifles should loose bazookas. Then you can use armor to deal with them. Kinda like how people complain about not being able to use armor against Volks. Why not just remove all the AT infantry from the game?
Just saying this whole deal with removing the shreck from Volks is a joke. Keep the factions different. Keep the handheld AT on both Rifles and Volks. If a unit is over performing, then make some adjustments. Why not try things like reducing the range on handheld AT? That lets armor kite and rewards flanking/surprise attacks.
I hope this patch dies... |
I read though all this and the whole time I was thinking about rifle blobs. Glad it is coming up here now.
Rifle blobs were always better than Volks blobs. They always have been and always will be. They have much better AI than volks and their bazookas (although not as damaging as shrecks) still made armor run away or die.
I cant believe people think rifle blobs are okay, but somehow volks were a problem. Talk about bias. Both blobs are super annoying and effective. Trouble is OKW elite units are lackluster and US don't even have any. So we nerf the OKW blob and leave the rifle as it was?! Terrible idea.
Overall, I actually think the truck side upgrades are just fine. I think it is stupid to give OKW an MG. Where is the asymmetry?
Honestly, this whole patch looks to be an allied only wishlist. |