I belive there was a different context for this line. Before last mission there was a mission where you was supposed to cut german retreat and eliminate them in process. Protagonists says that cutting this retreat was pointless, because those feeling germans tried to escape in order to surrender to Western Allies. And main idea was that Red Army's Berlin Operation was rushed in order to capture it before Western Allies (which was true IRL) and therefor a lot of casualties from both Russian and German side could have been avoided if not for the soviet command desire to be first in Berlin. This is what this line about photo was about. But the shit writing arent making it clear enouth.
And there are, tho its never in focus (which is one of the problems). Thoughtout the campaign you can see dead civilians or killed wounded (especially in the polish sniper mission) by germans. In Lublin mission its clearly shown that Germans killed soviet POWs.
It actually represents the whole problem with the campaign. Relic for some reason desided to throw shit in the face and focus on shit much more then on actuall heroism of the Red Army. In order to see it you have to read between lines in pretty much every cutscene\mission discripion.
This pretty much somewhat proves, that relic didnt really intended to show soviets in a bad light, because otherwise such moments easily could have been cut out from the game.
Its considered, by western historians and poles themselfs, that Red Army intentionally didnt help during uprising. True or not, its not Relic lie persay. Its the narrative pushed by western historians, you cant really blame relic for this, because its pretty naive to think that their research went farther then the Wikipedia and few books maybe. Is it a lie? Maybe, but its not the lie Relic invented.
Again, its not political. I mean, Relic just look over narrative pushed by the mass media, known historians, hollywood movies and created the script. You cant really expect western developers to avoid having this kind of problem, especially considering that they, in a first place, want to create action movie.
I mean, sure some might have been offended by the campaign and the story. But people should really understand that it ended up like this, not because Duffy or Relic are neo-nazis, anti-soviets or came from hitlerjugend. They just took the most generic representation of the soviets which is common in a west culture and created the game. No more, no less, no ill intentions.
The Berlin operation was planned quite well, Zhukov first of all cut off Berlin from other troops that could help Berlin and avoided unnecessary losses. In general, statistically speaking, in percentage terms, Zhukov lost the smallest number of soldiers than any other general in the Red Army.
Quite strange claims about not helping the Uprising, when: - a) there was help, - b) the Uprising was directly aimed against the USSR and organized by the government in Exile, the Red Army did not know about the Uprising and could not coordinate its actions with the Poles. Although in 1944 there is another example of the Uprising - the Slovak National Uprising, in which the Slovaks began to plan their actions with the Red Army and the Red Army helped the country that sent its troops to fight the USSR.
Relic should be called out, but realistically CoH2 story at worst is just tasteless and badly thought out. Relic got so much hate and problems, but in reality if we compare other games\movies they do much worst in terms of lies and history revision.
As I was always saying, main problem of CoH2 story is that it focused way too much on "unusual bad cases". I mean, tecnically speaking, nothing what was shown in the CoH2 couldnt have had happen during the war. Pretty much any "questinable" event which was shown in CoH2 did happen IRL and there are even soviet documents confirming it. On the other hand, such events could have accured maybe few times during 4 years of war and including it in the story is at best stupid.
Its as if, Relic would have made US campaign where in every mission you would have to bombard civilians, loot and comit other warcrimes. It would be a bad taste, not because it didnt happen, but because its plain stupid to base your storytelling on this narrative.
Idk, I am personally offended more by games like CoD. Because they are intentionally re-writhing history and intentionlly strate up lying. CoH2 is just an example of really bad writing in my opinion, without intentions of depicting soviets like trash.
But CoH2's single player campaign is rewriting history. This last mission brings the line under the whole company. The protagonist claims that millions of people died for the sake of a photograph of the flag over the Reichstag. So either an idiot or a liar could say that, or if the USSR would attack Germany and not vice versa. The main character is an officer who fights from the beginning of the war until the end of the war, he became a military correspondent and was supposed to see burned villages, massacres of civilians, concentration camps, civilians who were driven to forced labor in Germany (remember that in forced labor in Germany killed 2,164,300 Soviet citizens). And all this happened until the end of the war. And he says shit like that.
Description in the mission in which it is said that the Red Army refused to help the Polish Army, apparently here it is worth understanding the Warsaw Uprising - a lie. The Warsaw Uprising began after a major Soviet offensive 500 kilometers deep and 500 kilometers wide, after which supply lines were thinned. And even in these conditions, Rokossovsky (an ethnic Pole) began to help the Uprising, an offensive began on Prague (a suburb of Warsaw), the Insurgents dropped more than 300 tons of supplies, artillery spotters were parachuted for more accurate artillery support.
The whole CoH2 single company is a rewriting of history and its personal political vision, and I would very much like to know whose political vision of Quinn Duffy or the former THQ is, I hope someday some Relic employee who participated in the creation of a single company will tell us this story.
I am not here to defend Relic or claim that everything in COH2 are historically accurate.
I have simply asked what part of the game depict the foot soldiers of the Red army as cowards.
If in your opinion there are such parts pls identify them because I have a hard time finding them.
All of the above shows that the Red Army is cowards. Those who do not want to fight for their country, relatives and families. Not a single such phrase was in the game. All the motivation of the Red Army is shown in the game as shot and order 227. That is, the soldiers did not want to fight, only the threat of death.
And before that first solider says "we understand we are with you to the end" and that does not sound like a thing a coward would say.
Mission 5 text:
"The symbolic city of Stalingrad remained a key battlefield for more than five months, starting in the autumn of 1942. It was characterized by vicious close-quarters combat,infatry attrition, Luftwaffe bombing, and the perilous Volga crossing. For the Read Army, the enemy would be not only the Wehrmacth but also a new imperative from Comrade Stalin: Order 227. With the new order, Soviet troops were forbidden to retreat without a senior officer's command. Newly formed "blocking detachments" opened fire on soldiers retreating without permission.
Isakoivh detested the order but carried out his duty, fighting alongside his troops to reclaim the city named for their great leader.
"He ordered us to stand fast and save Stalingrad. So we knew that it was "do or die", We could not retreat"
Lt. General Vasily Chuikov, Red army.
Oh, how cute. But there is no such quotation in Chuikov's memoirs. But there is such a quote:
Soon I was informed of the arrival of the commander and commissar of a tank corps. I immediately invited them to the dugout, detaining everyone who was at the headquarters at that time, and asked:
- How will you, a Soviet general, being the chief of a combat area, look at if your subordinate commanders and staffs retreat to the rear without your permission? How do you assess your act from the point of view of fulfilling order No. 227 of the People's Commissar of Defense - the unauthorized transfer of the command post of the formation to the rear of the command post of the army?
I have not received an answer to my questions. Both the commander and the corps commissar burned with shame. You could see it in their eyes. I strictly warned that I regarded their act as desertion from the battlefield, and ordered them to be with the command post at an altitude of 107.5 by 4 o'clock on 13 September.
All in Chuikov's memoirs are two moments of mentioning order 227 during the Battle of Stalingrad, this and the text of the order. Another lie from Relic?
Can you please specify which in which part of the game in your opinion the red army is depicted as cowards?
Maybe at that moment where Soviet soldiers go on the attack and Maxim is shot in their back if they try to retreat? Or a game mechanic in which, after the call of the Conscript, a Commissar appears who will shoot all the soldiers whose squad has retreated? Maybe in those moments when the main character, talking to his soldiers, says the only choice we have is to go forward. And he is answered as if we have a choice? In the description of the mission, which says that Soviet soldiers are fighting because of order 227, and do not want to protect their country, home and family? In a false quote from Marshal Vasilevsky that he does not want to fight, taken out of context when he talked about when he fought in the First World War?
Nobody is saying Stalin was an angel or that he didn't commit crimes against humanity. That's not what's being discussed.
However, depicting the brave men and women of the Red Army as spineless cowards who are unwilling to fight for their homes and families without being forced at gunpoint and reinforcing negative stereotypes already disproved by reputable academic researchis racist, just like how saying the French Army is made of defeatist surrender monkeys is also racist.
The true terror of these totalitarian mass murderer regimes that deserves criticism lies in the political purges or the famines, not the way they defended themselves against a ruthless enemy who sought to wage a racial war of annihilation.
Where is the truth about the Nazi regime in the game? One at least as evil as, if not worse than, the Soviet Union? A mere footnote in the campaign. The campaign narrative that Quinn Duffy made doesn't try to criticize totalitarian regimes, it only seeks to criticize the Russian one, and disingenuously at that.
CoH3 will be far better off without his politics involved.
Can the CoH1 German single company be considered then as justification the myth of a clean Wehrmacht? If there is no mention of politics or war crimes, but the second part is one huge "Enemy at the Gate" propaganda?
Telling the truth about totalitarian mass murderer regimes is not racism.
You know, the Allies weren't perfect and did a lot of shit, but not a word about it. Germany with its policy of extermination and slavery? Not a word about it. Oh ... we are doing the part about Ivans, let's completely fill it with shit, because about Ivans you can, the rest cannot.
Remove Penalties from T1, convert them to Osttruppen ability, remove the merge from Conscripts and transfer them new to Conscripts. Remove SVT-40 from Penalties and transfer them to new Conscripts as an upgrade. Rename the new Penalties to Conscripts, and the Conscripts to Strelki (Rifleman's), replace their emblem with a new one.
The design of the USSR is just a mess. We have Conscripts in 1943 uniforms, no weapon upgrades. I understand maybe they wanted to show a quick call in 1941 for which there were not enough light machine guns. But in 1943?
Well mixed feelings. When veterans leave studios it's always bad, especially against the background of the gaming industry in which veterans leave and their studios stop making good games (Blizzard, DICE, etc.)
On the other hand, I remember the statements that the single player campaign will be historical about how Quinn Duffy went to St. Petersburg in order to emphasize the historical details and as a result, the single player campaign of Company of Heroes 2 stood on a pedestal in the ranks with such titans disgusting stereotypical, deceitful propaganda like Enemy at the Gate and K-19.
After playing CoH2 again I couldn't believe my eyes how zoomed in it actually is. It's actually more stressful for a player who doesn't use the tact map cause the amount of scrolling around is just bs. I now see it differently after trying CoH3 and I feel CoH has the best zoom out distance of the three.
For me personally, the opposite is true. I hate the large scale, the game turns into moving icons and not units. So I don't like the Steel Division. The large scale of the RTS does not involve me in the game. CoH2 has a great scale for me, and a good minimap (unlike CoH3 so far) complements the necessary perception.
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cblanco ★ 
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VonManteuffel 
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