Profile of elchino7

...

Was talking about UKF.

If you think OKW wasn't utterly unplayable during that era, you're probably too biased to reason with.

I think it was mostly a cancer playing against UKF and i would gladly play OKW rather than OH at that point, at least on 2v2. Yes, it might had been boring to play/watch the same 2 commanders on 1v1 but i think both factions saw play as opposed as nowadays, mostly no one touching UKF.

https://www.coh2.org/news/57074/war-paint-championship-statistics
https://www.coh2.org/news/55579/tightrope-s-pacific-invitational-3-a-meta-review
https://www.coh2.org/news/56975/the-nmc-cup-s02-recap-statistics
https://www.coh2.org/news/57812/tournament-statistics-axis-meta

I mean, while most preferred to play OH with 222s, sniper, Puma/Stug E, there were plenty of games with OKW.
On 2v2, i'll rather have a Stuka and +100 range ISG to deal with cancer emplacement rather than 4man mortars. CalliOP + LM was more manageable with STG Volks rather than Grens with poor formations.

snip

OK, i gotcha u. But those commanders were release at least a couple of months later, that's were my confusion came from.

To be honest, I think it is the first time a faction is in that spot not because of other factions cheese strat but simply by design. OKW was on a bad spot because of Maxim spam, USF mortar was broken etc... but Ost vs UKF today is nothing about cheese, you don't ever need to spam 4 or 5 222, they just can't follow the regular gameplay.

USF is not far ahead, remove the Pershing and voila. USF vs OKW is about being able to cheesy wipe enough OKW squads on late game with the Pershing to win the match.

UKF has been OKW 2.0 since it's conception. Gimmicky from wherever you looked at it.
Struggling on 1v1 but completely stupid on teamgames. Over the top commander units/abilities and a non doctrinal repertory of cheesy units which supplement lacking core elements.

Plus everybody had their 1 or 2 months of OP-ness, I pre-ordered the Collector's Edition of the game back in 2013 and after a month their released the first "premium commanders" which were 5 bucks a piece and OP as all hell, you had to buy them to stay relevant in terms of gameplay because no other commander could compete with them, and of course after a month they were nerfed when Relic got their money from them, so the later Armies being OP is nothing new, the problem is that the old things aren't being brought up to the new level, not the other way around.

Are you talking about Elite n Windustry or you are talking about the CE commanders ? Collectors edition was a joke cause buying the game day 1 would give you the same benefits bar not getting the 2nd ToW DLC. Still vanilla commanders were good for 1v1 and it was mostly on teamgames were you could get an edge. I mean, Shock Rifle, Assault Support, Guard Motor, Elefant/ISU, etc. Perhaps ISU+Guards for Soviets. OH did have better alternatives with Spearhead and Joint Ops.

Brits certainly are terrible now, but almost every faction has had its time where the faction was unplayable trash and its time when the faction was ridiculously overpowered.

For example, OKW had its time when it was unplayable - 60 fuel mechanised and 70 or 75 fuel Luchs, while Penals had flamers, Rifles had double LMGs, Volks didn't have panzerfaust until 8mins in, and all Allied LVs were at least as strong as the current T70. P4s were also 150 fuel, had worse pen, and far worse scatter. Of course, Allied fanbois were happy with the free wins they got back in that era but conveniently wiped that period out of the coh2 history books now that OKW is strong again.

Hmmm i would argue UKF right now is in an even lower standard than the lowest state of any faction had been, cause at least certain factions were handicapped only by match up or mode.

Say USF is steamrolling on 1v1 against OH, you could still use OH on 2v2+ while at the same time USF was not as good as you keep adding players to the game. OKW was bonkers but kept in checked on 1v1, mostly to maxim spam.

Right now, i don't think you have much reason to play them on either 1v1 or 2v2+. If your opinion is that OKW had it bad anytime, think about what would happen if you made the OKW rework and you didn't gave them a lava nade and panzerfaust after removing the gimmickies.

How does camo in this game work again? Something about cover right? And what happens as the game progresses? Lots of cover which means lots of chances to be camod and ambush. Their role is strengthened as the game progresses not weakened like shocks.
And is self heal suddenly not amazing just because volks get it?

While vet scaling used to suck compared to other infantry (through raw number performance) he might probably missed the changes which are kinda hidden on the changelog (it's on the commander changelog revamp, still for some reason. Unrelated it's also a mess to read it). Not as bad but not as great as most infantry.

Veterancy 3 self-healing moved to veterancy 1
Veterancy 2 grants +35% speed during ambush for 3.25 seconds; Veterancy 0 sprint Ambush bonus removed
Veterancy 2 accuracy from +25% to +30%
Veterancy 3 now provides 0.9 received accuracy

Not sure about vet 2 +25% grenade range and vet 3 smoke on retreat.

Other squads get around +30/40% acc bonus, cooldown bonus, -15%/-29% RA

Actually something that most people missed is that the SU 2man sniper isn't op in itself, but the fact that the 222 mg was ninja nerfed vs snipers a while back made the 2man op. If the mg wasn't purposely nerfed and performed normally or got a bonus vs snipers like all the other scout cars in the game, the 2man would be less of a problem. The bal team discovered the 222 mg wasn't working as intended for quite a while and now they've finally fixed it in the latest patch.

I've also said that the scaling for shocks is quite poor. In fact agrens, shocks and commandos don't scale either.

You are a bit confused. There were NO NINJA NERFS (ninja implies it wasn't registered on the changelog or at least intended).
Before permanently changing the 221 into 222, it got an HP buff (200>240). 221 was DECENT sniper chaser but never good (target tables were not introduced yet). When they permanently transformed it, they increased the cost to 230/30, because OH is already muni strained early on. Now here is where the ninja buff appeared which made the unit oppressive. They rightfully buffed the HP (240>320) but they used an old version which had the old cost of the 222 (210/15). Further on, they introduced target tables for some light vehicles to have a bonus against snipers.
Now, the 222 had a completely awful MG42 because IIRC it's tracking angle was so low that only perfectly aligning the vehicle would allow it to shoot. This was fixed but since stealth across the board was going to be nerfed, the basically removed the bonus and instead it had a penalty. Thought process was basically that 222 went from 0 (because it wasn't shooting) to something and they were reluctant to new sniper performance vs 222. Note: 222/Autacannon was never good against sniper outside of lucky shots.

Since i don't have access to files here, not sure if they added later a bonus against snipers (1.5) or they simple change it from 0.75 > 1.0.


Commandos don't need to scale, because they have a nuke grenade AND stealth. They "scale" or remain relevant due to this factor.
AssGren also scale badly but at least they remain to be a 5man squad unit on a faction with base 4model squads. IIRC they reinforce cheaper than grens as well.
Shocks are not a squad you NEED and merging with cons provide an antisynergy as opposed to other squads.

Right now, i do think that smoke (even if buffed) + grenade (even if buffed but nowhere near bundle/nuke) is way less cheesier than stealth + nuke bombs. Note: Shocks nade is an unique profile. Guards-Partisan/IS/Rifles/etc. use the same profile 80/60/20 while Shocks is 80/60/40 (radius and lethal radius remain the same) with the added particularly that it is the only grenade in the game with lethal friendly fire radius (80/12). Even bundle/nuke deal only 25dmg. This doesn't include satchel type explosives.

Dhsk was OP for about 2 years, why nobody was using it?

Because at that point, there were stronger options rather than spamming Dhskas. It was called maxims and SU at that point relied on having late game callins if they wanted to stay relevant in the game.

When the power level of factions or strategies is too high, good but not meta options are always gonna be Tier 2 strats. Once you buff stock options for SU and nerf the alternatives, Dhska found it's place into the meta.


Shocks are not gonna see META play unless they are utterly bonkers, because the core of the commanders which have them, ar at most fair. And fair doesn't cut it.

ISU after WFA release will rarely ever be meta on 1v1, IS2 is almost there but sees more use in the other commander, KV8 has been nerf outside of use and Soviet shock army is badly designed and doesn't provide anything other commanders could bring.