UKF feels entirely uphill, the entire game

Brits certainly are terrible now, but almost every faction has had its time where the faction was unplayable trash and its time when the faction was ridiculously overpowered.

For example, OKW had its time when it was unplayable - 60 fuel mechanised and 70 or 75 fuel Luchs, while Penals had flamers, Rifles had double LMGs, Volks didn't have panzerfaust until 8mins in, and all Allied LVs were at least as strong as the current T70. P4s were also 150 fuel, had worse pen, and far worse scatter. Of course, Allied fanbois were happy with the free wins they got back in that era but conveniently wiped that period out of the coh2 history books now that OKW is strong again.

Funnily enough most of these players complaining now didn't make a sound when Brits had countless nonsensically OP units. Old Trenches, Terminator Tommies, Instant-wipe Centaur, Screen-wipe Land Mattress, Old Crocodile, UC that was immune to small arms fire, Mortar Pits that could be built in your base and could still cover the whole map, Crushwell, Comet which was basically Panther with AI capabilities, 240 dmg Firefly with uber Rockets.

Yeah definitely agreed that Brits suck now. I still play them and they're terrible. But it's better than having them being utterly cancerous. They're bound to get fixed eventually - it's just the cycle of coh2 life.

It's a pity Relic interprets "unique factions" as "lacking basic gameplay tools". Snares, mines, flamers, sandbags, and mobile light artillery are all essential gameplay tools and it's bewildering how denying them is supposed to make the game more fun and interesting.

Brits certainly are terrible now, but almost every faction has had its time where the faction was unplayable trash and its time when the faction was ridiculously overpowered.

Funnily enough most of these players complaining now didn't make a sound when Brits had countless nonsensically OP units. Old Trenches, Terminator Tommies, Instant-wipe Centaur, Screen-wipe Land Mattress, Old Crocodile, UC that was immune to small arms fire, Mortar Pits that could be built in your base and could still cover the whole map, Crushwell, Comet which was basically Panther with AI capabilities, 240 dmg Firefly with uber Rockets.

It's a pity Relic interprets "unique factions" as "lacking basic gameplay tools". Snares, mines, flamers, sandbags, and mobile light artillery are all essential gameplay tools and it's bewildering how denying them is supposed to make the game more fun and interesting.

I don´t know if they are actually really that bad. In team-games vs OKW they do way better than USF because they have actual strengths that can be used to exploit OKW´s weaknesses. Like countering MGs and scout cars (until they have a snare), or snipers on open maps. You also don´t really need indirect fire vs OKW unless you play vs someone that gets lots of MG34s, but that´s rare. Not having snares is also less of an issue because it´s harder to get multiple LV as OKW compared to Ost. UKF is still stuggeling in late game vs OKW but until then you have a good chance.

Now Ost on the other hand just eats UKF for breakfast because of all the cheese they have. All the balance patches nerfed "OP" allied units across all factions, they also nerfed OKW units but they never really touched Ostheer. Just look at the Brummbär, it was "nerfed" in the last patch and still renders infantry that gets anywhere near it useless with every shot.

Brits certainly are terrible now, but almost every faction has had its time where the faction was unplayable trash and its time when the faction was ridiculously overpowered.

For example, OKW had its time when it was unplayable - 60 fuel mechanised and 70 or 75 fuel Luchs, while Penals had flamers, Rifles had double LMGs, Volks didn't have panzerfaust until 8mins in, and all Allied LVs were at least as strong as the current T70. P4s were also 150 fuel, had worse pen, and far worse scatter. Of course, Allied fanbois were happy with the free wins they got back in that era but conveniently wiped that period out of the coh2 history books now that OKW is strong again.

Funnily enough most of these players complaining now didn't make a sound when Brits had countless nonsensically OP units. Old Trenches, Terminator Tommies, Instant-wipe Centaur, Screen-wipe Land Mattress, Old Crocodile, UC that was immune to small arms fire, Mortar Pits that could be built in your base and could still cover the whole map, Crushwell, Comet which was basically Panther with AI capabilities, 240 dmg Firefly with uber Rockets.

Yeah definitely agreed that Brits suck now. I still play them and they're terrible. But it's better than having them being utterly cancerous. They're bound to get fixed eventually - it's just the cycle of coh2 life.

It's a pity Relic interprets "unique factions" as "lacking basic gameplay tools". Snares, mines, flamers, sandbags, and mobile light artillery are all essential gameplay tools and it's bewildering how denying them is supposed to make the game more fun and interesting.

The "old trenches" and mortar pit have been whined about since the very beginning, in the UKF Alpha it was sort of ok with the 4 shell types that could be toggled, post-release it was resilient but still, if the enemy is out of it's range that's about it, 400 manpower goes as far, same thing with static artillery.

As for the trenches, you had to pay 50 manpower for them and your teammates couldn't use them which was complete and utter nonsense so it wasn't just bad for the Axis, it was all around a badly designed feature.

Plus everybody had their 1 or 2 months of OP-ness, I pre-ordered the Collector's Edition of the game back in 2013 and after a month their released the first "premium commanders" which were 5 bucks a piece and OP as all hell, you had to buy them to stay relevant in terms of gameplay because no other commander could compete with them, and of course after a month they were nerfed when Relic got their money from them, so the later Armies being OP is nothing new, the problem is that the old things aren't being brought up to the new level, not the other way around.

Simple things like adding a 5th man upgrade for the Ost infantry at tier 4, repair bunker upgrade and a forward retreat point (for both Armies) would have helped out a lot back in the day to even out the playfield.

An example is a desktop rig, when you're upgrading it you upgrade all of it's components, if you just upgrade the Graphics Card and leave the CPU and there's a technological gap of 1/2 years + of course those old components are going to be a bottleneck, it's logical, too bad that few people know how to use that logic.

Plus everybody had their 1 or 2 months of OP-ness, I pre-ordered the Collector's Edition of the game back in 2013 and after a month their released the first "premium commanders" which were 5 bucks a piece and OP as all hell, you had to buy them to stay relevant in terms of gameplay because no other commander could compete with them, and of course after a month they were nerfed when Relic got their money from them, so the later Armies being OP is nothing new, the problem is that the old things aren't being brought up to the new level, not the other way around.

Are you talking about Elite n Windustry or you are talking about the CE commanders ? Collectors edition was a joke cause buying the game day 1 would give you the same benefits bar not getting the 2nd ToW DLC. Still vanilla commanders were good for 1v1 and it was mostly on teamgames were you could get an edge. I mean, Shock Rifle, Assault Support, Guard Motor, Elefant/ISU, etc. Perhaps ISU+Guards for Soviets. OH did have better alternatives with Spearhead and Joint Ops.

Brits certainly are terrible now, but almost every faction has had its time where the faction was unplayable trash and its time when the faction was ridiculously overpowered.

For example, OKW had its time when it was unplayable - 60 fuel mechanised and 70 or 75 fuel Luchs, while Penals had flamers, Rifles had double LMGs, Volks didn't have panzerfaust until 8mins in, and all Allied LVs were at least as strong as the current T70. P4s were also 150 fuel, had worse pen, and far worse scatter. Of course, Allied fanbois were happy with the free wins they got back in that era but conveniently wiped that period out of the coh2 history books now that OKW is strong again.

Hmmm i would argue UKF right now is in an even lower standard than the lowest state of any faction had been, cause at least certain factions were handicapped only by match up or mode.

Say USF is steamrolling on 1v1 against OH, you could still use OH on 2v2+ while at the same time USF was not as good as you keep adding players to the game. OKW was bonkers but kept in checked on 1v1, mostly to maxim spam.

Right now, i don't think you have much reason to play them on either 1v1 or 2v2+. If your opinion is that OKW had it bad anytime, think about what would happen if you made the OKW rework and you didn't gave them a lava nade and panzerfaust after removing the gimmickies.

Are you talking about Elite n Windustry or you are talking about the CE commanders ? Collectors edition was a joke cause buying the game day 1 would give you the same benefits bar not getting the 2nd ToW DLC. Still vanilla commanders were good for 1v1 and it was mostly on teamgames were you could get an edge. I mean, Shock Rifle, Assault Support, Guard Motor, Elefant/ISU, etc. Perhaps ISU+Guards for Soviets. OH did have better alternatives with Spearhead and Joint Ops.



Hmmm i would argue UKF right now is in an even lower standard than the lowest state of any faction had been, cause at least certain factions were handicapped only by match up or mode.

Say USF is steamrolling on 1v1 against OH, you could still use OH on 2v2+ while at the same time USF was not as good as you keep adding players to the game. OKW was bonkers but kept in checked on 1v1, mostly to maxim spam.

Right now, i don't think you have much reason to play them on either 1v1 or 2v2+. If your opinion is that OKW had it bad anytime, think about what would happen if you made the OKW rework and you didn't gave them a lava nade and panzerfaust after removing the gimmickies.

Personally I think USF is fine. They struggle for the first 5-7 minutes and then comeback with strong scaling infantry and more efficient units than the competition, i.e. HE Sherman and Pershing. No different than OKW was 2 years ago post June patch. USF would buy 4 mortars and laser blow OKW to shit while people were told to buy StGs and fight 2x BAR rifles. OKW was a “lategame faction” and USF more the early game faction at the time. Tables have swung full 180 now and suddenly USF is unplayable. Not attacking you or anything but the USF unplayable crap is really annoying currently. The faction has a tech issue and is weak to sniper play as always but that’s about it currently. Everything else is generally either mediocre like the mortar or over the top like the Pershing.

The problem isn’t USF is unplayable, the problem is why would you subject yourself to USFs weaknesses when soviets cover theirs so much better.

Are you talking about Elite n Windustry or you are talking about the CE commanders ? Collectors edition was a joke cause buying the game day 1 would give you the same benefits bar not getting the 2nd ToW DLC. Still vanilla commanders were good for 1v1 and it was mostly on teamgames were you could get an edge. I mean, Shock Rifle, Assault Support, Guard Motor, Elefant/ISU, etc. Perhaps ISU+Guards for Soviets. OH did have better alternatives with Spearhead and Joint Ops.



Hmmm i would argue UKF right now is in an even lower standard than the lowest state of any faction had been, cause at least certain factions were handicapped only by match up or mode.

Say USF is steamrolling on 1v1 against OH, you could still use OH on 2v2+ while at the same time USF was not as good as you keep adding players to the game. OKW was bonkers but kept in checked on 1v1, mostly to maxim spam.

Right now, i don't think you have much reason to play them on either 1v1 or 2v2+. If your opinion is that OKW had it bad anytime, think about what would happen if you made the OKW rework and you didn't gave them a lava nade and panzerfaust after removing the gimmickies.

My point was that Brits are really bad now, and most factions have had their time in the sewer. Balance patches tend to be cyclical in nature. It's also hard to discuss across various game modes so I'd mostly focus on 1v1 and 2v2 as the basis for balance.

If you think OKW wasn't utterly unplayable during that era, you're probably too biased to reason with.

OKW was using pre-buff raketens, ISGs, P4s, Luchs, Flak HT, sturmpios didn't have medkits until Vet 1, and volks had no fausts until tech structure was fully built.

At that time it was facing pre-nerf Allied infantry (even higher vet bonuses, flamer penals, double LMG rifles) pre-nerf Allied LVs (everything was a t70 but some of them had stun shots), and an Armour Company/Lend Lease meta. Zooks had ridiculous xp gain, every riflemen squad had smoke, while the USF mortar was an ultra-overperforming Ost mortar.

During that era if you went Scavenge for the only decent OKW AI tank, m10 and m4cs come out at the same time, and you don't get Command Panther to counter enemy armour. Both choices mean you can't get Pfusiliers, which were vastly superior to volks and the best way to hold off Allied infantry superiority.

It was a lose-lose-lose situation for OKW, and my USF managed to beat high ranked OKW players that I have never beaten since that era.

Huh, why didn't we see this balance disaster coming?

Where's your balance champion Mr. Smith now, guys? Axis easier to beat now? Ya'll having fun yet?

Isn't it so ironic that the majority of the balance forum posters wanted so badly for these "balance patches" to go live so that they could play Allies in team games again, and yet here we are with 2 out of the 3 Allied factions basically being instalose in every game mode. Great job fellas.

+ 10000

The game is trash now.

It is so rare to get a game that doesn't consist of some BS strategy. The game is just frustration overload.

Seriously, you only have to watch some streams to see the crap that is out there and how pissed off so many people are.

Are you talking about Elite n Windustry or you are talking about the CE commanders ? Collectors edition was a joke cause buying the game day 1 would give you the same benefits bar not getting the 2nd ToW DLC. Still vanilla commanders were good for 1v1 and it was mostly on teamgames were you could get an edge. I mean, Shock Rifle, Assault Support, Guard Motor, Elefant/ISU, etc. Perhaps ISU+Guards for Soviets. OH did have better alternatives with Spearhead and Joint Ops.



Hmmm i would argue UKF right now is in an even lower standard than the lowest state of any faction had been, cause at least certain factions were handicapped only by match up or mode.

Say USF is steamrolling on 1v1 against OH, you could still use OH on 2v2+ while at the same time USF was not as good as you keep adding players to the game. OKW was bonkers but kept in checked on 1v1, mostly to maxim spam.

Right now, i don't think you have much reason to play them on either 1v1 or 2v2+. If your opinion is that OKW had it bad anytime, think about what would happen if you made the OKW rework and you didn't gave them a lava nade and panzerfaust after removing the gimmickies.

Elite troops and windustry, Mech Assault and Counterattack, Osttruppen and whatever else Soviet commander, there were 3 ToW mission packs released and they added with them each 2 new commanders which makes 6, plus 2 community ones that suck plus the Elbe day ones which I don't remember if were OP plus 2 or 4 more like the Luftwaffe ones for the Ost.

So all in all they added around 10 or 12 more commanders, on top of the CE ones, for which I payed about a hundred bucks already, I mean sure I sold the CoH copies but still, that's around 80 bucks left that don't add up when they release more OP shit at a larger price at a later point.

You just feel backstabbed to have supported a company and out of the sudden there's something better and more expensive out there and you just feel like you wasted your money.

Thinking about it now I should have probably just skipped CoH2 and went for Rome II instead or waited for the Western Front Armies. At least CA didn't release pay to win shit and nerf it after a month.

Hmmm i would argue UKF right now is in an even lower standard than the lowest state of any faction had been, cause at least certain factions were handicapped only by match up or mode.

Say USF is steamrolling on 1v1 against OH, you could still use OH on 2v2+ while at the same time USF was not as good as you keep adding players to the game. OKW was bonkers but kept in checked on 1v1, mostly to maxim spam.

Right now, i don't think you have much reason to play them on either 1v1 or 2v2+. If your opinion is that OKW had it bad anytime, think about what would happen if you made the OKW rework and you didn't gave them a lava nade and panzerfaust after removing the gimmickies.

To be honest, I think it is the first time a faction is in that spot not because of other factions cheese strat but simply by design. OKW was on a bad spot because of Maxim spam, USF mortar was broken etc... but Ost vs UKF today is nothing about cheese, you don't ever need to spam 4 or 5 222, they just can't follow the regular gameplay.

USF is not far ahead, remove the Pershing and voila. USF vs OKW is about being able to cheesy wipe enough OKW squads on late game with the Pershing to win the match.

...

Was talking about UKF.

If you think OKW wasn't utterly unplayable during that era, you're probably too biased to reason with.

I think it was mostly a cancer playing against UKF and i would gladly play OKW rather than OH at that point, at least on 2v2. Yes, it might had been boring to play/watch the same 2 commanders on 1v1 but i think both factions saw play as opposed as nowadays, mostly no one touching UKF.

https://www.coh2.org/news/57074/war-paint-championship-statistics
https://www.coh2.org/news/55579/tightrope-s-pacific-invitational-3-a-meta-review
https://www.coh2.org/news/56975/the-nmc-cup-s02-recap-statistics
https://www.coh2.org/news/57812/tournament-statistics-axis-meta

I mean, while most preferred to play OH with 222s, sniper, Puma/Stug E, there were plenty of games with OKW.
On 2v2, i'll rather have a Stuka and +100 range ISG to deal with cancer emplacement rather than 4man mortars. CalliOP + LM was more manageable with STG Volks rather than Grens with poor formations.

snip

OK, i gotcha u. But those commanders were release at least a couple of months later, that's were my confusion came from.

To be honest, I think it is the first time a faction is in that spot not because of other factions cheese strat but simply by design. OKW was on a bad spot because of Maxim spam, USF mortar was broken etc... but Ost vs UKF today is nothing about cheese, you don't ever need to spam 4 or 5 222, they just can't follow the regular gameplay.

USF is not far ahead, remove the Pershing and voila. USF vs OKW is about being able to cheesy wipe enough OKW squads on late game with the Pershing to win the match.

UKF has been OKW 2.0 since it's conception. Gimmicky from wherever you looked at it.
Struggling on 1v1 but completely stupid on teamgames. Over the top commander units/abilities and a non doctrinal repertory of cheesy units which supplement lacking core elements.

So UKF is fine and we should all be happy?

UKF is not but balance currently is 100000000x better than 1-2 years ago. People tend to forget that before the balance patches we had massive vet 5 shrek terminators, unkillable British emplacement spam double lmg rifles, release centaur/commandos/comet , half map USF mortars that could get 40 kills a game etc. People forget that when brits were released axis basically became nonexistent for month, not to mention the ludicrous bugs

The balance team inherited a horrendously broken and balanced game in which Relic wouldnt allow sweeping changes for factions that desperately needed them, and Mr. Smith was a massive part of getting that much needed community love into fruition. Remember that it wasnt Mr. Smith that blocked Cromwell buffs brit snares etc it was Relic.

UKF is not but balance currently is 100000000x better than 1-2 years ago. People tend to forget that before the balance patches we had massive vet 5 shrek terminators, unkillable British emplacement spam double lmg rifles, release centaur/commandos/comet , half map USF mortars that could get 40 kills a game etc. People forget that when brits were released axis basically became nonexistent for month, not to mention the ludicrous bugs

The balance team inherited a horrendously broken and balanced game in which Relic wouldnt allow sweeping changes for factions that desperately needed them, and Mr. Smith was a massive part of getting that much needed community love into fruition. Remember that it wasnt Mr. Smith that blocked Cromwell buffs brit snares etc it was Relic.

Yea I don't know about that. In the past each faction (except for Soviets up until their rework, Ost was also on the weaker side) had their own powerful units that worked well in certain situations that everyone would consider "OP", and matches came down to who could abuse those units the best. That is only the case for 3 factions now - UKF as well as USF are lacking any real meaty units that can single-handedly turn around a match - And on top of that UKF lacks the basic tools available to every other faction. I know that it was the intention of the balance mods to make it so this wasn't the case for any of the factions, but guess what's going to happen when you approach balance with the intention of completely redesigning faction features? Yea, you kind of create more issues than you fix.

The real "scope" that increasingly became the scapegoat for bad decisions on the unofficial balance teams part should have been limited to bug fixes and slight unit tweaks - not redesigns and heavy nerfs. I feel that the opportunity for a community driven balance team was wasted and the community won't be getting another shot at it any time soon. We may be left with a broken game for awhile, and I just hope that this can serve as a lesson as to why it's important to be as objective as possible when it comes to balance discussions.

I don't think emplacement would have been so bad if it wasn't for the implementation of brace. It could be used to save the unit and buy time for reinforcements with no real drawback. The enemy either killed the emplacement or they didn't, all or nothing bleeding on the way (unless you goofed/were outplayed)
A faction designed around super durable things that don't bleed is a faction designed to be broken as hell.
IMO if brace inflicted an MP deficit like Soviet auto repair did emplacement would have been much better balanced or if brace required garrisons so you couldn't have a Tommy blob running around putting up pressure while your emplacement hold the line. Even making emplacement cheaper on pop cap and even mp but tying a lot of their strength to being manned

The loss of the sniper snare was silly of course. I didn't see the problem with it countering lights since it was so squishy that fucking it up was a hard loss. Hell they could have just adjusted its effect against light if they needed to. Idk

Personally I think USF is fine. They struggle for the first 5-7 minutes and then comeback with strong scaling infantry and more efficient units than the competition, i.e. HE Sherman and Pershing. No different than OKW was 2 years ago post June patch. USF would buy 4 mortars and laser blow OKW to shit while people were told to buy StGs and fight 2x BAR rifles. OKW was a “lategame faction” and USF more the early game faction at the time. Tables have swung full 180 now and suddenly USF is unplayable. Not attacking you or anything but the USF unplayable crap is really annoying currently. The faction has a tech issue and is weak to sniper play as always but that’s about it currently. Everything else is generally either mediocre like the mortar or over the top like the Pershing.

The problem isn’t USF is unplayable, the problem is why would you subject yourself to USFs weaknesses when soviets cover theirs so much better.

+1

I don't think emplacement would have been so bad if it wasn't for the implementation of brace. It could be used to save the unit and buy time for reinforcements with no real drawback. The enemy either killed the emplacement or they didn't, all or nothing bleeding on the way (unless you goofed/were outplayed)
A faction designed around super durable things that don't bleed is a faction designed to be broken as hell.
IMO if brace inflicted an MP deficit like Soviet auto repair did emplacement would have been much better balanced or if brace required garrisons so you couldn't have a Tommy blob running around putting up pressure while your emplacement hold the line. Even making emplacement cheaper on pop cap and even mp but tying a lot of their strength to being manned

The loss of the sniper snare was silly of course. I didn't see the problem with it countering lights since it was so squishy that fucking it up was a hard loss. Hell they could have just adjusted its effect against light if they needed to. Idk

The brit sniper stil snares LVs with the crit shot. I've done it like 12 times this month lol.

I do wish it wasn't locked behind vet1 since the thing takes forever to vet because he shoots so slow.

+1

The brit sniper stil snares LVs with the crit shot. I've done it like 12 times this month lol.

I do wish it wasn't locked behind vet1 since the thing takes forever to vet because he shoots so slow.

That's what I meant. Idky they did that...