Profile of wooof

This pretty much says it all right here, with numerical evidence to back it up. Each entity under fire will take a maximum of 4.5 seconds to die and that's if and only if the flamer refuses to crit for that entire duration (which frankly, is unlikely).

What with input lag and retreat delays due to infantry AI being stupid, your troops probably won't start running until two seconds in. The better question is, how does the KV-8 not insta-gib?

its actually even faster. 18.2 dps is the average dps including reload, so its the more accurate dps over a long period of time. if you only count the time when its aiming (1 second) and actually shooting(5 seconds), the dps is actually 33.3. so it will take closer to 2.4 seconds to kill without any crits.

A unit that consistently kills other units breaks the game.... the whole f**king definition of an effective unit is one which kills other units consistently.

i dont think thats the definition of an effective unit. flamer tracks consistently instantly killed lots of soviet infantry, so it got nerfed multiple times. now it kills much slower. kv8 never got touched.

KV-8s don't break unit preservation mechanics. For one, they don't insta-gib and really only deal huge amounts of damage vs blobs.

actually, instagibbing is exactly what they do. kv8s deal 18.2 dps compared to flame tracks only doing 4.3 dps with each gun. that means they do 200 damage in 6 seconds, more than enough to kill infantry without needing to reload. plus flamethrowers can crit, which instantly kills an entity regardless of its hp. both the dps and the crits have aoe, so its very possible to instagib. blobs will die quickly, but single squads die just as fast.

They're also countered by virtually everything on wheels (Barring light armour). Just because you need combined arms to take down a unit doesn't mean it's OP.

really the only effective counters are stugs (which are rarely built) elefants/tigers (which show up much later) and panthers.

the only really plausible counters early on are stug and p4. i believe were talking about team games, in which the soviet teammates will have su85s which will be sniping those while youre bouncing shots off the kv8. i think everyone agrees that an su85 sucks at penetrating an elefant. well a p4 has a 3% better chance of penetrating a kv8.

If anything, the elefant is far more of a balance issue in that it can snipe soviet tanks from an uncounterable distance. Being at the top of the food chain in terms of armour and damage, it doesn't really have anywhere near the large amount of counters the KV-8 has and can only be defeated by forcing a mistake whereas a KV-8 will be raped by armour.

except the elefant lacks the mobility to have the same impact as a kv8. sure it can destroy tanks, if you decide to charge in front of it. if the elefant moves forward to attack, it will get flanked and killed. its a defensive tank. kv8 is offensive. whens the last time you saw an elefant charge into someones base?

While I choose to faust it, whole gren squad dead, even vet 3
and having that massive armor?
seriously, but why? Why such a unit is designed like this?

If it is a meatshield stuff, it shouldn't be that strong in killing

you want the reasons why its so good? it has 240 armor (su85 only has 180). its flamethrower deals 18 dps (for comparison, flamertrack only deals 4 dps with each gun, so 8 total if you can get both to fire on the same target). all flamethrowers ignore armor, so vet 3 squad means absolutely nothing. on top of that dps, flamethrowers also have a chance to kill entities instantly, even if they were at full hp. to top it all off, its only 20 gas more expensive than an ostwind.

im glad people are finding this information useful. like endeav said, we could use some feedback on this sheet. its difficult to know how easy these tables are to interpret when we wrote them. they obviously make sense to us and we know where to find everything, but itd be nice to know if other people think theyre confusing or hard to understand.

as for the error on the vehicle tabs, i fixed all of those. they provide much more accurate numbers now. other recent changes include costs, AOE and scatter have been added for vehicles, mg42 incendiary rounds were added to the small arms and AT tabs, two new tabs have been added for infantry and vehicle crits, a new tab for suppression has been added, and the mortar/grenade tab has been expanded with more stats (such as throw times and detonation times)and now also includes off map call ins.

were still working on including tabs that will incorporate veterancy into the stats somehow and also add more stats for infantry like cost and armor.

those are all the changes and things were working on that i can think of for now. let us know if you can think of anything else that might be useful.

Hey, is it ok that I link this DPS spreadsheet on here: www.companyofheroes2.wikia.com

I linked this actual thread, so I suppose I am giving credit?

i guess since youre linking the thread, that is sufficient credit. though if you were to link directly to the sheet, credit to the four of us in some form would be nice.

smg's would probably be one place where it wouldn't make much of a difference. Have you ever shot an assault rifle before though? You take a shot at a target and adjust your aim based off of that. There would be a very small chance you land the first shot. However after adjusting your shot based on where you saw the dirt kick up your next shot would be more likely.

The only places where it wouldn't really be valid is very close range weapons like smg as you pointed out or flamethrowers. Hell even machine guns would have to adjust their aim based on where the bursts are landing.

this is all true and yes i have shot an AR. the difference is weapons have very short ranges in this game. rifles dont shoot past 35m in game. even snipers only shoot 50m and most tanks shoot from 40m. at these kinds of ranges there is very little adjusting your aim. things like bullet drop and wind will have an insignificant effect.

tycho makes a good point though. if we were to make the game "realistic", weapons shouldnt be missing 50% of the time at these kinds of ranges.