Okay, okay: Next on the (german) to do list: Jagdpanther - current Panther characteristics + Elefant gun. Have fun with that balanced game. I can only guess how big the uproar would be.  |
Ok ok.
Now give me a good arguement to why Soviets should not have a competitive AT platform capable of competeing to a certain degree with JTs and KTs.
Because they didnt have such armor? Well the SU-100 saw service as you might have noticed.
Or is it just that you dont wanna to need to have a little challenge?
1. I don´t have OKW and I´m not planning to buy it. Not every player can build King Tigers and Jagdtigers. Nobody should be forced to buy it.
2. A unit competing with JTs would lead to the gameplay of the last big patch: Elefant vs ISU, only with Su-100s and JTs.
3. Why would the Jagdpanzer IV which is the most similar vehicle in the game to a SU-100 get 60 range and the SU-100 70 range? (The difference between both vehicles is marginal and the 75mm had a flatter trajectory.)
4. Multiplayer games: ISU-152 + SU-100 = Broken. Germans migth get the JT but can´t wipe infantry with one shot.
5. In the early stages of the game the SU-85 was hella OP. Now Imagine the chassis with more damage and range. For the same reason a Jagdpanther isn´t needed ingame either.
6. Super range tanks in the game are always slow, making them somewhat balanced. |
You just flat out stated that the Germans had superior armor.
You never specified a year, just a flat statement.
It was kinda obvious that we were referring to the games multiplayer and the time it´s set in. |
Lel.
In 1939-1940 Russia was making T-34/1940s and KV-1/2s while Germany only had Panzer IIs and Panzer IIIs with short barreld guns.
German early war tanks had such poor characteristics but where solid and reliable machines with radios, but Soviet eraly war armor had way superior armor and guns while they were unreliable and such.
If you want history then expect fighting KV-2s with your Panzer IIs, but ofc the tide would turn late game when Germans stepped up significantly, but dont pull the "Russia had worse tanks" card, they had amazingly powerfull machines in the early war that German tank crews feared.
Hey, a person who didn´t realize this games multiplayer is set after 1943. I wonder where all the PIV L/48s and T-34/85s are coming from...
Imo the ISU is fine, it wipes squads and removes any obstacles either it be bunkers or other fortifications and is decent vs armor.
What people want is something that can deal with late Axis super tanks like the KT and JT.
Like the SU-100.
Any super long range unit is a cancer to gameplay. It´s annoying. What I see here is lazy Soviet players wanting a unit they can park, wipe German tanks with and if every caught drive away with the mobility of a medium tank. |
[size=1]No, they got tanks that translate better from reality into games where the myriad and endless problems that over-engineering and poor internal design can't cripple them, because we never have to deal with those problems in game. Funny, that you refer to German tanks exclusively for that while IS-2s and ISU-152 suffered from horrible reload times, poor ergonomics and carrying only half the rounds of a normal tank etc. In the case of the IS-2 you also have to bring the gun to the standard position after every shot to reload and then adjust on target again.
If you read what I said earlier I specified that the ISU 152 is currently underperforming in terms of AT capabilities, not against infantry.
I did read it and I was referring to the AT capabilities. You are the one misreading. It is still way better than any other super tank. Tanks don´t fight in a vacuum, it annihilates infantry and offers good AT. Last time I played versus it, it decimated Tigers without ever being reached... there is this stuff called support.
Am I seriously facing people here wanting an ISU buff? |
So by your Logic it is fair That your opponents are forced to play with worse units, while you can spam the cream of the crop axis armour. Calling the T-34-85 the best medium in-game, toplel, Panther with it's current adamantium armour feast on their puny Souls.
The Su-100 is again 100% legitimate because of the OKW super heavy tanks. The current underperforming ISU (AT aspect) cant cope with the all mighty Jagdtiger (which can shoot through shotblockers...), and the Su-85 is at not a match for anything Else than a Pz.4.
He´s actually right. The T-34/85 devastates infantry, while the Panther is more of a special purpose tank. If you see a Panther finishing full health squads with one to two shots, you would have a point. Arguably the Panther is a heavy tank, being in the weight range of the IS-2 with 45 tons.
"Underperforming" ISU-152s... now that´s what I call "toplel". You are aware that it handles any tank easily and only struggles versus Elefant and Jagdtiger (again, specialized vehicles which suck versus infantry).
It looks more like Soviet players want to totally own German armor with their own armor. Most Soviet players just can´t handle the fact Germans get better tanks. Guess what? They did... |
TL,DR; tank combat is about 70% luck in WW-II. No matter how small your gun is, take the shot. Well, I don´t want to write walls of text. In the end Soviet tanks had to come closer to German tanks for all different reasons to fight them. It was also not about luck but the skill of the crews. This engagement range gap is what caused so many casualties.
Yes it would kill all german heavies, because it could do that in real life, and in coh logic, all tank destroyers are completely innefective againts infantry but super good againts tanks.
So an SU-100 would also probaly have huge penetration because of it's TD role, and considering it's penetration and range was superior to that of the ISU-152, in game the penetration would probaly be something like 350 or so and it would have maybe 70 range, same as ISU or elephant. The SU-100 is comparable to a Jagdpanzer IV and see how that thing turned out. Making the SU-100 a super tank and the Jagdpanzer IV not would be ridiculous. |
Because it is a game and it needs its tanks to be balanced...and SU-85 is already horrible compared to Jadgpanzer 4 which outclasses it in every aspect...
Except that the SU-85 can spot for itself, which is kinda the most important feature of a 60 range tank destroyer...
Oh and for your "realism" argument,check this:
"The SU-100 arrived in operational units in October 1944 and immediately became popular with Russian crews. It was able to defeat almost every German tank on the battlefield, only to be outmatched in 1945 by the King Tiger".
Did I say the SU-100 couldn´t do that? The thing is that it could be shot easily by the opponent also. Why give that thing more damage than other tanks? It´s not a super heavy vehicle like Elefants, ISU, and Jagdtiger.
The gun of the Su-85 and T-35-85 could pen the Tiger and the Panther (depending on angle) from the front.
For the Panther that would be point blank range to go through the frontal armor - if at all.
Su-100 were developed as a counter for the King Tiger, and Ferdi's.
Who both couldn´t be defeated frontally by it. And there were like 90 Ferdinands/Elefants... pretty much no reson to develop a vehicle to counter a tank this rare. It was meant to be a counter versus Panthers and such as those proofed impervious on all but the closest ranges to the available 85mms. |
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I voted "yes". The T-34/85 is iconic for the Soviet war machine in 1944-1945. It feels out of place to not have this tank in almost every game.
The T-34/76 should come in a doctrine and be dirt cheap and around 6-8 cps, so you can use it earlier and people would still go for said doctrines.
I hate playing Soviets as I either get useful tanks OR infantry upgrades and good artillery. |
SU-100 would do to Panthers what the Jagdtiger does to T-34-85s. Funny at first but horribly OP. What does the German have as a hope for winning if all their heavies are smashed instantly? Why would it? Panthers could fire back and destroy it, doubtful with T-34s versus a JT. And why would a 100mm be allowed to do super damage while 75mm/L70 wouldn´t be?
Thing is: Its role is redundant if you think about it. Su-85s couldn´t go through heavier armor, yet they do ingame. Why a Su-100 then? Fix the units that are ingame. The biggest sin imo is that the T-34/85 isn´t available outside a doctrine, while it really should be the standard spam tank. |
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