I believe they specifically do not want conscripts buffed for late game, excepting ppsh and htd from doctrine. The point is to force the soviet to use a doctrinal infantry. Lmg is still a bit too good and comes early; a slight dps reduction and/or tier 1 requirement would be good. Volks couldn't get mp40s without a tier upgrade either.
Finding some way to improve penals would take care of a lot of issues. I just flat out can't use them cost efficiently (even with only using conscript merge to reinforce). In a clown car they're pretty good long range dps... outside of a clown car they just melt. I'm not sure what to do about them... cost reduction maybe? More survivability? Right now I'd rather just get a sniper. |
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My strategy for fighting LMG grens: avoid them and try to cap around them until I get a sniper(s). No infantry short of shock troops can reliably fight them without taking huge losses. Molotovs are very risky, depending on how long the thrower does the huge baseball windup. When you're losing what feels like one conscript per second, any delays are deadly.
Granted, when I get vet with ppsh, I can take on pretty much anything, but that's well past the initial LMG encounters. |
Pretty much the essence of the change I'm proposing.
This will allow Conscripts to do decent AI throughout the game while not being able to charge down MGs, making the russian Earlygame a bit more skillbased.
And just so you know, the cost for BARs in VCoH was 60 fuel. That's what I'm comparing to
Yeah, I know on the fuel thing. The metagame is different here though... in vCoH I almost never went T4 as Americans and relied on AT guns instead, so the dynamics were different in terms of fuel. I think it would be an interesting change nonetheless. It's hard to say without seeing it in action. |
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IMO, here's the problem with the Russian late game... they have no decent tanks with turrets. Sorry, but the T34 still sucks, and in the games I've tried it, I just get rolled with P4s. The Germans... well with turrets, they get the P4, panther, tiger, and even ostwind. Two of those are good all around tanks, with one dedicated to AI and one dedicated to AT. The Soviets? Well there's the T70, which got a major nerf now that it can no longer racecar over infantry... and the T34 which still sucks for its cost (and can now fail on ramming big tanks), then the IS-2 (which I've honestly never built since beta because the only doctrine that has it doesn't have Guards).
You can't really be aggressive with Soviet tanks for this reason. The SU-85 lacks a turret and now turns very slowly, so it really has to have long range and stopping power since you have to use it defensively. Pgrens coming out of the fog of war can ruin your day fast if you over-commit. If the T34 could go head to head with a P4, there might be options. As it is, it can't, going Soviet T3 is a losing prospect, and I have no idea what to do about it. |
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Soviet artillery is hit or miss, but I try to get one to alleviate the camping, especially if they've locked down the middle. Panzerwerfer can absolutely devastate if used correctly: gg infantry. |
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The change the OP is proposing will benefit conscripts more than it would hurt. The difference in ppsh vs. non-ppsh conscripts is massive. When going with the HTD doctrine, I always end the game with vet 3 conscripts due to ppsh. Otherwise conscripts end up being AT nade platforms that can speed around and cap. I'd gladly trade oorah for ppsh any day, though 50 fuel is too steep of a cost.
Also, as others have pointed out, oorah != fire up. |
Similarly since he's the one in charge of doing so, he can make them both fun to play and address any issues he feels is making one "unfun".
Well to offset some of the negativity, I'll say as a person who put hundreds of hours into CoH automatch over the years and who was quickly losing interest in CoH2... this patch has seriously returned the fun to the game, in a way that I haven't had since vCoH. Thank you. |
The Maxim was total shit last patch. That being said, I don't think these types of comments are warranted as it's just going to further fuel the raging flame war between faction fanboys.
This is true. Point taken. |
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If it's any consolation, last night I flanked and killed an MG42, stole it, and used it to pin a squad of PGs. I think it took 3 bursts, but I honestly wasn't counting. |
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After playing pretty extensively last night, I can say that this is the most fun I've ever had playing CoH2. I didn't feel forced to build a clown car. I could actually *gasp* build other things and skillfully use conscripts. For everyone complaining about how a MG42 can't stand alone against multiple squads of conscripts or shock troops, here's a thought... IT SHOULDN'T. Pre-patch Maxims got rocked by multiple grenadiers or PGs, even blowing them up from the front. A 2x MG42 start SHOULD NOT be effective. Your MG should be supported by a grenadier or scout car or halftrack or whatever.
I don't get the reasoning of some people here. Your "I win" button is gone. Deal with it and adapt your build order and be happy that the game is no longer a boring snoozefest like it was before. |
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