Profile of Omega_Warrior

Problem:

With the JagTigers recent price change and the fact that we will be seeing more of them, I believe it's time to talk about it and it's little brother the Elephant. Notably it's general lack of any true counters.

Given these unit's huge armor, health, and range they are a extremely hard unit to take out. While they have a big price and rightfully dominate armor vs armor battles this leaves them extremely resistent to just about everything in the game. Leaving the only true way to combat them to completely overwhelm them with the very unit they are strong against.

Fighting them often requires the enemy player having a lack of support and if even moderately supported can be a impossible feat to actually damage in any way. And while in 1v1 a player can choose to fight elsewhere or exploit the lack of support it's cost might take, this situation becomes less and less likely in 2v2+ settings where allies can easily support them and their usage is more numerous.

Solution

All I would like is for some counterplay to be introduced so that players can effectively fight back and damage the super heavy TDs when completely routing it's support or overwhelming it with large numbers of tanks isn't possible. Which may look something like this:

Bazookas/PTRS/Piats +100% Penetration vs Elephant and JagdTiger
Zis-3/57mm/6-pounder +50% Penetration vs Elephant and JagdTiger
ML-20/Priest/Sexton/25-pounder +50% Damage vs Elephant and JagdTiger

*Numbers should not be taken exactly and are only meant to display intention

The intention being to allow infantry AT to actually do consistent damage to the Heavy TDs if they manage to flank or get within range. The TDs still will have large health pools and wouldn't be at too much risk but could be atleast damaged and forced away for repairs to allow allies a few moments with armored support to fight back.

As well the artillery changes, would give a more solid way to damage them in deadlocks if they opt for those. Especially in those more clustered 3v3+ modes where flanking isn't an option. Considering the low accuracy on artillery this should only allow them to premptively damage or finish off a weakened heavy TD as no more then 1-2 shots can usually hit per volley.

I actually agree with OP on this one. The new Vet 3 Rifles are insane to deal with and remind me of the old vet 5 volks.



This was after using direct fire against them the entire game via the newly nerfed mortar.

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to convey with this picture. It's just a bunch of vetted rifles and officers. Pretty standard build to be honest. Maybe a gif would have been more helpful.

The problem to me has always been that they become a liability after P4s stop being built.

If you look at schreks, they are highly effective vs almost anything the allies have. The only exceptions being the tanky heavies like the IS-2, KV-1, and churchills. And there is literally no tanks that the USF can field that aren't heavily threatened by schreks.

But zooks lose absolutely all relevancy in the late game vs Tigers, Panther, and heavy TDs which make up the majority of axis late game. Hell, they even have difficulty with standard P4s. By the late game they just end up reducing DPS on your rifles.


I'm fine with heavies like the Tigers being pretty much unninfected by them given that that's their purpose, but perhaps we can use target tables to give them a little bit more pen vs Panthers and the heavy TDs so they still retain some usage in the late game.

I've only ever experienced it once, like a year ago. Never had a problem with it.

I don't know if it's fixed in the final patch, but in the balance patch it used the Soviet Mine model.

Well that seems silly considering there is already a american mine in-game that has the same exact stats. They probably just didn't think it through.