Well the most direct counter i would say is the new B-4 203 mm artillery. It can really hurt it and (with a little vet) kill it in one shot, but any artillery in general can hurt it pretty bad.
If you are looking for something non-doctrinal you are going to have to get creative.
Best thing you can do is get off a at grenade on it which will really slow it down so you can get at-guns in range or flank it with armor.
Even though they are pretty vulnerable to it a well used T34s can use their speed to get around it and ram it to take it out of action or just straight up shoot it.
Long story short, It's slow and cant defend itself very well if you close in. This makes it vulnerable to a lot of things. Just for the love of god, don't try to take it on upfront with any sort of armor. You are never going to win just retreat or break the line of sight and start to plan a flank or try to pin it down for a call-in. |
>>Complains about LMG Grens
>>Wants 2xLMG on Cons
I'm not saying I agree with OP, but aren't the russian LMGs different. The guards DO get two and they seem to have the same affectiveness together as the german's one. Though I don't know the actual stats. |
Thread: T34/8516 Oct 2013, 18:03 PM
1) I came to this conclusion for various reasons the primary ones being the RAM and the fact that mark target gives 50% extra damage , that means that its supposed to be used by uits with relatively small damage and relatively good penetration like atgs su76s , guards and even at grenades ( the 2 latter used from behind ) . Other than that there were many more cooler ways to give a hard at unit on this commander other than the 34/85s (like is2 for example or kv1 ) but they didnt want any because the commander is supposed to buff many aspects of your army but not by much
2) I think you are using the commander in the wrong way . 1st of all guards are soft antiinfantry , hard antilightvehicle and soft antitank (though with good micro they get a lot better against tanks and infantry ) and the 120mm hits light vehicles like a ton of bricks . Regardless of that you are supposed to have early game dominance using this commander , that is what i told you in the first place , that is why you have the 120mm and the guards and since you dont have big munitions abilities you are supposed to spam mines and flares like a madman in order for your cons guards mortar atg etc to kille even more germans . Under those premises you should have a large combined arms force kicking ass long before you call in the t34/85s , you aslo should have a fuel and manpower advantage over your opponent which will allow you to call the 34/85s and creaTe a really big combined arms force that can deal with anything , you cant be on the back foot all game relying on just t1 or just t2 and expect to turn around the situation with that ability .
All that said , i do think the 34/85s need a small buff and definitely same fire rate as t34s , i said so before .
But if you want them to beat p4s head on , then you need to have the ram removed and they cant be a call in , they should be recruited like normal units and the mark target and crew repair need to take a hit with the nerfbat as well . Or go the way nullist proposes with a munitions cost upgrade , allthough imo you should also need to upgrade it from the t3 building in order to use
Except the t34/85 isnt only in that commander. There is another doctrine where all it gets is self-repair and is completely overshadowed by the IS-2. You can't balance a commander ability by what is in a single doctrine. |
I just generally don't like this idea. Infantry in the mg arc should be pinned, penals are no exception. They need a buff, but not this way. |
Thread: T34/8516 Oct 2013, 08:27 AM
The sheer volume of valid suggestions for T34/85 improvements speaks to the issue being real.
I side with a non-Commander upgun for muni solution that specialises the T34 from AI to AT, at roughly PIV equivalency in penetration and RoF, for the following reasons:
-This doesnt upset PIV balance because its still a superior chassis.
-The cost is laterally diverted to Muni, which is a largely voluntary resource pool that doesnt directly screw with tech speeds, but rather diversifies each respective tier internally. Basically allows a 0.5 tier progression.
-I think its crucial, that this is non-Commander. This kind of dedicated AT is needed to reinforce Sov roster UNIVERSALLY vs more AT dedicated armor options, which, as someone very validly pointed out recently, and damn that I cant cite the writer, is a systemic problem for Sov, that basically Ost armor, throughout, is always a Sov armor counter, because it is almost all AT centric, whereas Sov armor has an AI impetus it doesnt even really need.
-I model this largely on the 222 precedent. Its a 0.5 tier muni upgrade that makes Ost vapable of responding to, primarily, T70s.
-For the T34 to be the "workhorse" it is touted as, it needs this AT upgrade option. It used to be argued that Ram provided thr necessary slack, but that is now an outdated notion due to Ram changes and indirectly AtNade/Faust changes.
-Let Sov specialise its T34s for AT, at muni cost, and relative detriment to AI. Atleast give Sov the choice to do so.
The next is radical, but I still suggest it for future and larger meta consideration. It concerns ATGs.
-Im a huge proponent of imprpving MP and infantry specific AT options, specifically the ATG. I cant speak for 2v2+, but in 1v1, I want to see infantry/MP builds extending further in the meta, rather than the game incentivising teching, hard, to armor. Imo 1v1 has TOO MUCH ARMOR as is, and the nature of this armor, as AT centric on Ost, systemically creates a problem for Sov.
-PaK is graced with a better RoF, ZiS gets Barrage. But wtf, Sov doesnt NEED AI Barrage, it NEEDS better MP AT!
-Give PaKs the Barrage, and ZiS the better RoF.
--Ost lacks indirect fire options vs larger Support teams, Sov lacks better T2 AT. Swap them, and both units fit their meta role better.
Now for the really radical part:
-Move ZiS to T1.
-Move T70 to T2.
For once I agree with you nullist. I think a large portion of the community would love to see the T34/85 attainable in normal build and i think it is well needed.
The thing is I don't see the balance team doing it. Ever since a release they have had a don't rock the boat sort of mentality and haven't changed units in anything other then stats. Still a part of me wants to believe it's possible. |
so is charging 5 conscripts at a tiger? soviet at nades should destroy the main turret too german armor is so op its not even funny
Soviet infantry based AT is getting a buff somehow. Developers stated that they were making the faction less reliant on guards. |
honestly if it was up to me, i'd remove AT nades and panzerfaust damaging engines, and just give them a damage increase, like coh1
But it's needed. Without damaged engine the at guns can't keep the tanks in it's arc. It's meant so you can't just rush headlong into a supported pack take a hit and get behind where the At gun is completely useless.
Either way, the next patch should bring some increase in soviet infantry based AT. THe developers did say that it was going to make soviets less reliant on guards. Maybe we will see AT nades do significant damage.
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Thread: T34/8516 Oct 2013, 00:59 AM
I really don't want the T-34/85 to be equal to the Panther. The reality was that only the turret and gun was upgraded, the hull was mostly the same.
However, the additions to the turret were substantial, it had a turret basket, positions for loaders, commander, and gunner, so a 3 man turret. In the 76 version, they would stand on top of ammo boxes to reach the 2 man turret controls. T-34 crews would steal the seats out of American supplied Shermans.
It doesn't take crack German training to load a gun quickly.
No one is saying that it should be a panther, but it should put a little fear into one. It should do enough damage that(if supported) can kill one. |
compare to the 240MU german heavy strafe, the soviet heavy strafe is bit OP. at least i don't see german strafe kill T34 and it don't kill infantry
What are you talking about. I've seen it kill T34s and SU-85s all the time.
Or are you talking about the infantry pinning strafe. GOD DAMN THIS THREAD IS CONFUSING!!! |
but you know Ram is not a vet ability but Blitz is.
there is not a single vet ability that can be disabled under any condition in the game atm. and some thing can disable vet ability is just unfair to that unit. reduce its effectiveness is ok. if we want it completely disable during engine damage then it should move into unit ability and give some thing else as vet ability.
also i think AT nades lands at where u click on the tank, same as how infantry throw nades to the building. it goes where it click on. i think if u click in the back it will hits the back. not completely sure about this. need more testing but i really don't have time to play recently
Actually it wouldn't be all that odd. For the motherland has debuffs after it and you have to pay 150 munitions to use it. |