Alright. So he was wrong as well then. Fair enough.
Just wondered why you didn't correct him as well, is all.
Seemed to be rather selective.
Look, I know I'm new here, but this, Nullist, is why peeople get their backs up. Don't take it personally.
I wasn't wrong. I used simplified formula to show my point.
...and Oz, you WERE wrong, by way of oversimplification.
All of y'all quit trying to prove you're right all the frickin' time, smoke some blunts, maybe do the dishes or something. Dammit. |
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I disagree. The Osteer who spends muni on grenades - which kill unreliably, based on relative micro of both players - will find himself short when he needs a) medic bunker or b) panzershreks to counter that fast t70 in your base picking off retreated units. And then there's the LMG, mines, and mg bunkers - all of which represent valuable assets.
The Soviet who spends on molotovs is not going to have enough muni to purchase DP machine guns on his guards - much less enough left over to button the FHT charging down your cutoff. Molotovs are not nearly as effective as a well-placed demo charge. AT grenades are useful only as emergency defenses, since they put the squad at risk, and they are not nearly as reliable as mines. That said, these weapons are highly effective against players who are not paying attention - either due to battlefield distractions or inexperience.
To say nothing of expensive command abilities. |
Thread: T34/8520 Oct 2013, 17:22 PM
Good ideas, but good luck getting enough fuel and manpower to make it work without sacrificing map control and having many boots on the field.
Button vehicle is good but Ostheer's smoke ruins it.
Agree with the T-34-85s+T4 combo, but yeah again the cost of teching is too much and we can only dispatch Is-2s from Armored Assault with T-34-85s.
Unimpressed with the IS-2 right now - shots fail to penetrate waaay too frequently. Another example of Soviet armour being more effective in AI roles.
Smoke is only effective in one direction, and you should never ever have your AT unsupported. It's not hard to triangulate enemy tanks with a second guard squad - invaluable in case the first one must retreat.
I'm standing by my points, though, because I think build order is key here. The SU85 should be out before the T34/85s - in the early stages it provides excellent AT support in combination with guards. The 120mm can meanwhile slow or halt German capping units with its long range. And when it gets vet, it practically instawipes anything that isn't carefully watched. Guard/SU85 is enough of a threat against early tanks that Ost must support their tanks, losing map control. When the heavies come out, T34/85 is a fine replacement/supplement to the DP guard squad. 'course, I am talking specifically about the Guard Motor commander. And I agree that the T34/85 does not perform much if any better than the 76, but it's place in the command roster remains fitting and - I daresay - useful. But it isn't hard AT.
And I think that throws players off quite a bit, since the expectation is otherwise.
Now, the IS-2, I could use some pointers on. It's always just been a heap of scrap for me. I have no comment on the effectiveness of that particular commander.
A certain amount of map control is lost leading up to CP1, but easily regained with the shock of these particular units. |
Thread: T34/8520 Oct 2013, 15:48 PM
there's where i see most of the problem, no soviet infantry is able to close in without taking major casualties and retreat before they can do anything as they will get rifle naded and mowed down by LMG fire into oblivion. shock troops get owned by LMG when closing in, guards+dp28 get owned by rifle nades.
the idea of using commander call ins is already in there, as evidenced by elite infantry call ins that fill up different roles in the soviet army, but like you said, there's still a huge gap in effective infantry AT for soviets. ptrs dont cut it, AT nades dont do much either. and that infantry AT must be on a non doctrinal unit.
Where is your artillery? Why aren't you using against stationary Ost during your advance? You should have a mortar or zis by this point, or else your snipers/penals can face up LMG infantry.
The PTRS is very effective against light vehicles, the DP with its button ability buys crucial seconds for your heavy AT (zis/su85) to close the deal against medium/heavy tanks. I don't particularly see a problem with this.
By contrast, PG shreks are high damage, expensive weapons on a fragile 4-man unit. Their AI effectiveness is severely hampered by the upgrade. They create no-go zones for light vehicles, much in the same way that guards do, but they are vulnerable against medium and heavy tanks.
In light of this, the T34/85 seems best suited, with its delicate aim, to supporting the SU85 by picking off infantry at range during late-game battles, while still possessing the resilience to close with and stall the panther when you need to seal the deal. Expensive, yes; Albeit less-so than the panther. And battles at that stage can easily mean win or defeat.
Nice thing about the T34/85 ability as it exists right now is that the Sov do not need T3. They work beautifully in conjunction with T4, rounding it out neatly. They possess a great deal of shock value - enough to wipe a squad or two when they first hit the field. I don't think they should be the first or the only tank a soviet force dispatches. |
MGs suppress and pin Infantry, Mortars clear MGs, Infantry clear mortar teams. Snipers are fragile wildcards. Rock-Paper-Scissors-Sniper.
Very well put. I stopped playing because of exactly what you wrote, still checking out the forum though. Russians are unplayable.
Far from unplayable. More difficult, maybe. Requiring forethought, possibly. But then, the soviet forces are still able to meet most threats with fewer units, so long as they are chosen to complement one another.
Someone ban this troll please.
Aaaaand who the hell are you, anyway, Mr. 5-post count? There's a fellow expressing his opinion, who often backs up his opinions with statistics and reasoning, albeit frustrated with the attitude received in kind. Level-headed? Not so much. Doesn't matter if you agree with it or not - You can't walk into a community like you own the place and demand that one of its most active members be removed. Further, this reply adds nothing of value to the discussion we are having here, so I ask, kindly, that you do your best to keep on-topic. Thank you. |
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Not sure why ppl keep ripping on penals so bad - they are at least as useful as snipers - possibly more so with their high dps and better ability to resist damage. |
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[edit: foot-in-mouth syndrome] |
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Does anybody know any good replays demonstrating its use? I don't ever use it. It's so expensive, and I don't really understand this 'lose to win' logic. Do I need to lose a whole squad and consequently, its veterancy, to get a unit back - or just 6 models? |
that way a panzergrenadier squad would not be either super anti tank infantry or an antitank infantry with surperb infantry killing power.
PG AI power stinks after the upgrade. Only two models possess small arms, and they are the first to die.
we can do the same with conscripts, you can either upgrade them to have either two lmgs or two ppshs. the lmg for dps conscripts but ppshs for assualting conscripts, (keep in mind that soviet conscripts in 1944 were well equipped). guards that could either upgrade to lmg for button upgrade or svts for great infantry killing power.
Two lmgs on a conscript squad seems like overkill, bearing in mind that grens get one, and scripts reinforce costs are cheaper.
Aside from that, it could mean a little more battlefield confusion, when units aren't as immediately identifiable at a glance, though this is not to say that I am against more choices being made available. |
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I was playing a game on Oka winter the other day...
I got the cutoff while my opponent was capping up the right-hand side, but they were still receiving resources - fuel and munitions - from the disconnected sectors.
Seems I forgot to save the replay. Has anybody else encountered this? |
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