Depends compared to what. In addition caster like cheese impressive things.
Things like Sturmtiger deleting a hole army might be nice to cast but I am happy the "cheese" has been removed.
On the other hand the power level of infantries available early is allot higher than it used be.
Pretty much; while a lot of the vehicle gimmicks (except panther/jackson/heavy spam) have been fixed (compared to vCoH2), infantry has just gotten stronger and stronger.
It would be nice to see a balance patch that says "reduced power of XYZ infantry to bring it in line", rather than further buffs to weaker units (the most recent patch buffed PGrens). |
Rifles are arguably one of the most powerful mainline infantry squads in late game (it's them or infantry sections) - I don't think they need a buff. In fact, I'd argue they (and a few others) need late game nerfs to prevent vet3/double LMG squads from destroying everything at every range.
Regardless...
Does anyone else have an idea on how to implement a USF 6 man Rifleman upgrade or does anyone have feedback on my Veteran Sergeant upgrade idea as an add on to rifle company?
Basically what was suggested would be best. +1 model but it costs 60-100muni, and takes up a weapon slot. Even then, though, it would be a balancing nightmare since it's just furthering mainline infantry powercreep, but just with HP instead of DPS. Grens are already having trouble with 5-man, vet 3 rifles; how are they going to do against 6 man squads?
|
|
Just powercreep in general. Everything has been buffed to insane degrees, and it's gotten worse with WFA/UKF and even with recent patches. OST/SOV was pretty close to ideal before WFA came out, but then we got Volks blobs, rifle blobs, double LMG/Bar blobs, and then UKF added bren blobs.
I'd really like to see all of that rolled back, to where an LMG-gren represented the MOST effective medium/long range infantry squad, and where PPSH-Cons were pretty good at close range. That was a pretty ideal "best close range" and "best long range" setup; just balance Rifles/Volks/InfantrySections to be in that range.
Instead, now cons/grens are kind of a joke, replaced by Penals,PGrens/AGrens and a massive collection of off-map elite infantry. Same can be said for the current state of panther/jackson spam, and heavies absurd HP/Armor pool.
It'll never happen, though. |
Sorry, but being upset about the micro cost of an RE unit with a grenade after 4 days of seeing them is laughable compared to other axis examples like IRHT combo'd with 1 click rocket arty. Move out of the garrison or kill the RE. It's not hard to do either. Hopefully balance team is much smarter than to remove a new upgrade a week after release because it taxes an axis players micro in an annoying fashion.
In general, people want MORE micro, not less.
IRHT is low skill; it should be removed or 'fixed' somehow; but this isn't the thread for that. It's been brought up a few times. Rocket arty is fairly easy to counter. You can hear it coming, and there's a fair bit of delay before it hits. It's also manually targeted and has a long cool down. Yes, the OKW rocket arty does hit a bit hard with direct hits, but that's somewhat of a trade off for having almost no area of effect compared to Sov/USF/OKW/Brit rocket arty.
And, again, a 1v1 garisson fight isn't the issue. I've stated this a few times; it's concentrated rifle pushes supported by rifle-grenades against OST that's the issue. Their core units require you to be stationary to fire (LMG grens, MG42), and they need to do so in order to counter the rifles; but they can't because of a zero-input attack from a supporting unit.
Secondly, removing auto-fire from in-direct units is so stupid. They're indirect fire units meant to smash anything that can get spotted for them in range. We've been told to move our units for the last 6 years the games been out to counter IDF, but now I guess the community doesn't want to micro anything?
No, we want to micro more; that's why IDF should require more micro for more effect.
|
That line of logic doesn't apply to any other indirect or static emplacement. I'll reiterate: If you're asking for the removal of a tool simply because its annoying for you to micro, it doesn't need to be removed and that persons feedback should be discarded. It costs 60 munis, fires stupidly slow. If you cant stop 6 RE squads, 15 minutes into the game, it's a L2P issue and not a unit one.
There's a pretty big argument to tone down auto-fire, too, for the same reasons. The skill input needs to reflect the return; this is pretty much how all RTS games are balanced. A while back they were actually toned down a fair bit (OST mortar range, general ROF, etc.), but for some reason the pack-howie and scott were missed by these nerfs.
And yes, the 6RE spam is an edge-case where the player probably needs to improve; but one or two RE-RifleNades supporting a proper rifle push is far too effective for the amount of skill required.
And I'm not asking for it's removal - at all. It's actually a pretty interesting upgrade. I'm asking for it to require more micro for its current effectiveness. Either requiring attack ground to be decent (like the brummbar) or converting it to a barrage ability with a short cool down (15s?) |
You literally are asking to nerf a unit thats been around for four (4) days simply because it's annoying to micro around. You're playing an RTS I mean, this can't actually be real feedback right? I mean, lets just remove the GrW mortar and all in-direct while we're at it.
Yeah microing is annoying
The problem isn't that you need to 'micro around it', the problem is the person on the receiving end needs to micro a ton to counter a unit requiring nearly zero. This means that the USF player can focus on micro'ing rifles/tanks, while forcing the opponent to do more for essentially 'free'.
Micro/Effort should be proportional; if it takes a ton of micro to pull off, it should require a ton to counter. Similarly, if it requires almost no effort, it shouldn't be very hard to avoid. This is why off-map has flares and a long delay; it's a 1-click low-effort ability, so it requires basically one click (a move command) to avoid it.
|
There is a mechanic for them specifically for that issue.
Suppressed RETs will not shoot accurate nades.
If you are flanked, even CEs would hardcounter you.
This doesn't actually address my comment; you can't suppress through smoke and LOS blockers.
I also didn't mention flanking - which, of course, is going to counter an MG.
For example, by not sitting at max range and getting inside dead zone of RETs? They aren't going to do much with these carbines of theirs.
This works in a vacuum, sure, but that's exceedingly rare. Realistically they're behind some rifles, likely with double BARs - closing in from max range isn't an option; in fact, sitting at max range in that situation is what you need to do, since LMG grens only win it range.
And both are projectiles that go over LOS blockers.
Mechanically they are exact the same.
Balance of them is not comparable as they serve 2 different purposes.
In fact, all grenades behave that way, regardless how you launch them.
Sure, and Gdot and I were pointing out that the 'balance' right now isn't remotely fair. They can both shoot over LOS blockers, but the cost/effort involved is massively disproportionate. |
It doesn't even hardcounter HMGs in buildings, unless there is a LOS blocker on the way.
It does however hardcounter passive players with extend of micro not surpassing easy AI who never used any other hotkey then a-move.
It does vs. HMGs outside of buildings, which is pretty common. There's also smoke, LOS blockers as you said... Really, there's a lot of situations where they're countering MGs.
Meanwhile, I'm not sure how you're supposed to micro LMG grens: they need to stay static to fire.
That's the point of rifle nades.
Have you ever played ost?
One is a muni-heavy (early game), single round, 'skill-shot', the other is a single-time muni cost, auto-firing weapon requiring no user input outside of being 'in-range'. They're not comparable.
|
It's another unit that 'hard' counters OST units with little to no user input, much like mortars, MHTs, Scotts, and Pack-Howies.
It's not going to be 'fun' to play against when your units designed around being static (MG42, LMG Grens) are forced to move constantly by units requiring almost zero user input (just put them behind your rifles).
I completely agree with OP's suggestion: remove auto-fire from RE-RifleNades completely, and instead give them a 'barrage' ability with a higher RoF. |
|
Any advice would be appreciated. This is a pretty typical 'vs. brits' game these days. |
Doomlord52
Relic Entertainment
cblanco ★ 
