i see what you mean, but one thing i thought about was this might allow comebacks to be a little easier. say you get your army wiped and lose most of the map. your mp income is going to skyrocket and your fuel will drop. with high fuel costs, you wont get a heavy tank out again until you take the map. now you can afford a heavy tank easier. not sure if thats what they intended, but just something i thought about.
well when your army get's wiped it is supposed to hurt. when i talked about risking a long tankless midgame for a good powerful and make a comeback in my second paragraph. i meant that i want a high risk high reward kind of scenario. not something that you call in and hope it will be a miracle weapon just because you lose your entire army. would it be better if you constantly fight for the fuel and harass other areas to get your super weapon and hopefully reverse the situation? try to adapt and fight for your resources, use the items that doesn't cost fuel. panzergrenadiers, AT gun soviet mines. if done right you can reverse the situation, it's a lot more action and fun to watch than a guy just sitting back and wait for 720 manpower. |
and some people moan that they want the vehicles to cost all manpower. Can't win really
i dislike how in vcoh you can just call in a tiger every time you lost one so you can get stay in the game ( what it really does is delay the inevitable ) which is why i think that having every tank cost fuel is an improvement from vcoh. remember those matches where players just wait for 1000mp call in double panthers, just to lose them wait a little more and just call more? it's pretty annoying to go against and all it does is create more wreckage because it doesn't require any map control to get those tanks. why should games resort to "map control no longer have importance late game" kind of thing? i think the map control should be equally important throughout the game, not something you neglect and charge at vps because you got your 8 doctrine points of panther call ins. |
As Pqumsieh stated, he believes that the decrease in fuel and increase in manpower for heavy tanks will make them more affordable in 1v1s. I highly disagree with this. I did not have much problems purchasing a Panther in 1v1 games or 2v2. The only times i had problems is when i did not have enough manpower, fuel was never the problem, now i don't even know if could even afford one if i use a lot of infantry.
I like the heavy infantry style of play, which drains a lot of manpower from me. Getting a panther should be one of those things that require the player to save a lot of fuel and risk going on a long tankless midgame to get the big prize, using anti tank infantry assets like the PAK gun and panzershrecks for a while until they get their heavy tanks for the big comeback instead of encouraging the player to skip t3 and go straight to Panthers.
In the games that Imperialdane had cast you can see that Panther and Tigers has already been used a lot in 1v1s and 2v2s with heavy infantry battles. This price change will not improve the 1v1 or 2v2 games, and at the same time it will worsen the bigger 3v3 and 4v4 games. You will see less infantry as players will often have to hold back on the infantry to get their big tanks out. it probably even encourage more vehicle style of plays or other units that doesn't cost manpower to reinforce.
I think one of the big reasons what made CoH so great is because of the infantry battles, and i don't want to feel punished for using them. So please, decrease the manpower cost and increase the fuel costs, if not 440 manpower and 165 fuel, change it too 520 manpower and 150 fuel. |
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Can you just clear this for me?
Are you saying that I can attack Piv that is supported by infantry by pressing oorah on bunch of conscripts, run up to Piv and AT nade it. Press retreat, without even losing entire squad, then move in with Su85 and at guns and finish it off?
And it is good tactic because conscripts are cheap, and losing few will not hurt you?
and that I can chase down scout car with conscripts by pressing oorah, chasing it down and sticking it with AT nade?
Either I am not understanding you buddy, or I absolutely don't see that as viable tactic against any decent opponent.
As I said, chances of actually being able to attack and waste Piv that is supported by PG's and not lose heaps of MP, possibly SU85 and at guns are slim, at best. By retreating conscripts, you left your SU85 and AT guns at mercy of PG's....
All you gonna do is drain your MP (even tho conscripts are cheap, can't just sacrifice them) and have yourself vet2 Piv to deal with.
Rifle Guards are designed to come in as call in for Soviet commanders, for that reason. Because they are more versatile and conscripts becoming semi-useless as heavier armor and upgraded infantry start hitting the field.
oh su85s are on the field? that makes things much more easier since the thing can kill a panzer IV within seconds, the panzer IV could not kill a su85 unless the panzer IV flanked it, but if it does the conscripts might be around to AT nade it leaving the panzer IV helpless. now lets look at another scenario, su85 attacks panzer IV, the su85 gets panzerfausted, the panzer IV flanks, the panzer IV also gets AT nade, both vehicles have engine damage, but the su85 has such good turning speed, and can turn away and reverse to kill the panzer IV. if panzergrenadiers happen to be around than you pretty much lost a tank for tank, but that also means he committed more into killing your unit.
panzer grenadiers can be good AT units, but their anti infantry capabilities will be reduced if they upgrade with panzershrecks + the soviets have lots of anti infantry units that can slaughter german units. AT guns, su76s, shock troops, guard nades, katyushas.
if the german player attacks with panzergrenadiers with panzershrecks first than the su85 can quickly get away since it has such a quick reverse speed. one panzershreck does 120 damage, one su85 has 640 hp, it takes 7 panzershreck hits to kill an su85. you have problems taking out a panzer IV? than the germans have a problem taking out an su85, but you don't want to think about that do you? |
keep in mind that during the war the soviets didn't have many different kind of AT weapons like the germans had, but they had a lot more guns. one of the reasons why the soviets won the war is because they had built more AT guns and artillery than any other country. if relic make AT guns more affordable it would make up for the lack of ATs the soviet has. also, in city maps you can make pretty good use of the line of sight feature. |
decrease the fuel income on points.
currently every strategic points give extra +3 fuel, and +4 munitions. every fuel point gives +7 fuel. if they decrease the income from these points to +2 fuel on strategic points and +6 or +5 fuel on fuel points the overall. this should decrease the speed of which players can tech. all tanks and vehicle fuel price must be reduced to 10 pct so it would not slow down tank production as much. it also makes getting light vehicles a little risky since fuel will start to matter more. |
sure its lot harder for Grens. I don't have problem with scout car, i just don't use conscripts for that (it tears them appart)
My point was why would you spend MP on conscripts, rather save MP for rifle grens and eng, a lot better, effective and versatile option for me.....
I just don't see benefit in that. For me they die to fast in mid-late game, and even tho they are cheap they drain MP overall. (one Piv round kills 3-4 instantly, before you say WTF you got your self vet2 Piv to deal with)
conscripts are cheap units with a lot of different kind of abilities. yes, one panzer IV are able to kill 3 or 4 instantly, like a t34 round can kill 2-3 grens instantly, but that kind of stuff doesn't happen to often. the panzer IVs accuracy has been nerfed such much it rarely hits infantry anymore while the t34 accuracy has been buffed. although hit the dirt has been nerfed it can still come in handy since it prevents suppression. conscripts can still come in handy, for supporting weapon crews and keeping or capping points. |
i remember seeing an article that says the game sold 400,000 copies and when i saw the picture of the leaderboards before the leaderboards were out, it says that 385,000 people are in the leaderboards.
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I dont know who you are playing VS, but I would be extremely disappointed in myself if I allowed squad of grens to freely come in behind my t34 and then fire of pfaust at it.
That situation would result, vs any decent player, in you losing your grens to T34 without firing of that pfaust.
Your theoretical analysis and scenario only do one thing and that is, you don't actually play as Soviet and haven't actually tried to put it in practice.
-You cannot AT nade scout car, only promote it. so conscripts are useless
-You WILL suffer high losses with low possibility attempting to AT nade damage Piv engine. Semi-useless
-you can cap points with conscripts late game but eng are much better option to have: you can have flame, mine sweeper (mind you, some people actually mine their points as defensive measure) plus you can reapair and build stuff. Why would you chose conscripts?
So yeah Conscripts are semi-useless and rifle grens and eng are much more versatile combo to have
do you know that this game has truesight? and if you cannot see my grenadiers hiding around the corner and get panzerfausted would you still be disappointed?
I haven't played soviet? how the hell did you come up with that conclusion? i used grenadiers as an example because you can do the same thing with conscripts but a lot easier since you would have oorah. soviet scout car giving you a problem? can't catch that thing with grenadiers! german scout car giving you a problem? you have oorah!
yes people do mine their points, but it's more difficult to defend your point with mines when you're german, teller mines does not detonate on infantry, and s-mines are just a waste. the only real reason you would get a mine sweeper for engineers is to remove that one teller mine that could change the game, not to cap points. why would i use conscripts over engineers? just take a good guess!
if you are going to complain about conscripts not being able to AT nade a tank, just remember it's a lot harder for grenadiers. |