UKF can deal with mg no problem. Flank it, buy sniper/light vehicles heck bren carrier can do it which you can buy at the start wth you guys smoking
Ostheer have a sniper that comes much sooner than UKF's. UKF's sniper comes around the time Ostheer would be building their 222, giving it rather a short window to "deal with an MG" (Even shorter if it's immediately countersniped by the Osther sniper)
The UC is... OK as an MG counter, but it's quite vulnerable to being zoned or even outright killed by Grenadiers's fausts, and even by the MG if it enters its arc (Especially if said MG is veterancy one and pops Incendiary rounds). It also ceases to be a threat to your MG when the 222 or PAK hits the field.
UKF also only have a single light vehicle, in the AEC... which kind of isnt an "AI" unit, and isnt really able to "deal with" an MG before itself is dealt with/zoned by a PAK gun, or grenadiers.
None of this, barring the UC (Which is sub-par as has been stated) is useful in the first few minutes, which is when UKF want to be really dealing with an MG, as they desperately want to push off their enemy and dig in quickly. What are YOU smoking?
Ostheer, in comparison, have their own sniper, which can be built from the beginning of the game (Tier 1 is not a real delay), along with a mortar, which can similarly be built from minute one... they also have the vision afforded by their Pioneers, which outranges the opposing MG's vision, allowing them to far more easily bypass an opponent's MG, and prevent their own from being circumvented through Flanking manoeuvres. "Flank it" is not an unique concept to UKF, and honestly they don't do it as well as other armies due to needing to stick to cover. |
All the 64 bit stuff is done by Relic itself.
Oh, I thought you guys handled fixing Lelic's mess after they put through the 64 bit patch? Fair enough, my mistake, I guess this is entirely on Lelic then. Hope they do something about this sharpish... though they're not exactly known for that. |
First thing first, if I want to deal with blobs I would rather build a stuka than either of this tanks. Moving in a straight line towards your target is the best case scenario and what you should aiming for using this units.
These units also were like made to counter support weapons, AT guns? I would just ignore it and fire in their face. If the at gun is well supported then I'll support my sturmtiger too. If that's not possible then just stuka it.
In the current state of the game AVRE is better than Sturm and I'm only telling my previous "opinions" when if they got the exact same stats and be literally the same
The Stuka is for team weapons, not for Blobs, and surprisingly you don't actually have the Stuka if you're playing an army that has access to the AVRE.
Both the AVRE and Sturmtiger are intended to fight blobs of infantry while being survivable in the face of AT. Sure, they can drive up and fire upon team weapons, but that's kind of not why you build them, and it requires that you dive rather more deeply into enemy lines (especially in the case of AT guns) than you really might like.
Also: "Best Case Scenario" is, as the name suggests, in the best case. You cannot always drive up in a straight line and shoot an apparently immobile blob, in the same way you can't always loop around the sturmtiger with your T-34 and shoot it in the rear armour until it dies, which is the best-case scenario for that engagement. You have to account for scenarios that are not "best case", which is what most of them will be.
In your hypothetical scenario where both the AVRE and SturmTiger had the same shell statistics, the AVRE would still be superior due to its turret, that's what's being argued. They wouldnt be "Literally the same", even if you were to normalise their armour, HP, range, speed etcetera as well, simply due to the fact the AVRE has a turret. |
They don't have constant mandatory expenditudes to make their units viable, unlike soviets.
They don't have 110+ muni dumps per squad to upgrade their units.
Their pintles are cheapest in game.
They don't need to pump muni into timed abilities constantly to make their units perform on the level opposing units do(hi, maxim and 57mm).
They might not be too floaty, but compared to all other factions, even OKW, their muni expenditure is absolutely lowest in game with a spike at T2 due to 251 flamer.
Which constant mandatory expenditures do Soviet units have? Oorah? I really don't think that's "Mandatory" any more than Rifle Grenade is. It's a valuable tool for Conscripts, but it isnt "Mandatory" for it to be used "constantly"
Ostheer do have 60 munition LMG upgrades needed for their Grenadiers to be effective, which they start to require fairly early, Mobilise reserves is a cheaper upgrade (In terms of Muni) and comes much later.
Their Pintles might be the cheapest, but Soviet simply don't HAVE pintles to upgrade, other than through the IS-2 docs (I dont think there are any others). Pintles are great, but it clearly isnt a good think to point to when you're trying to argue how OSTheer has less Muni expenditure than Soviet.
OSTheer mines are also significantly more expensive than their Soviet counterparts (Individual patches of S-mines I would argue to be comparable to Tripwire flares).
OST also require Munitions for their healing solution, as opposed to Soviet who instead use fuel.
The maxim I'll agree, though it isnt commonly built, and the 57mm doesn't perform "on the level" of opposing AT guns when muni is pumped into it, it performs above and beyond them.
Soviets are considered one of the less munitions-heavy factions, to my knowledge, not one of the most, and Ostheer are absolutely not the "lowest". OKW are absolutely not the lowest, either, with mandatory STGs and (arguably) mandatory throwing of Flame Grenades to help swing fights in their favour. Up until the coming patch they also have a constant (practically) mandatory expenditure of Munitions for healing, as Mechanised builds are both popular, and don't have access to "free" healing. The latter can be such a sink that it often delays some of the STGs for Mechanised-build volksgrenadiers. |
ofcourse, but why would you need to rotate the vehicle? I mean would you use these things versus a moving medium tank?
Turreted vehicles are inherently superior to Casemates. You can't always "move in a straight line towards your target", and being able to move parallel to your target, turn your turret, fire, and then immediately reverse along the same path to escape is obviously better than having to them turn the entire vehicle to move away.
It also allows you to ensure your front is towards enemy AT solutions, and to more easily and quickly track a moving blob without exposing yourself more than needs be.
As a final thing, the AVRE has much less of a tell as to when it's gearing up to fire when compared to the Sturmtiger, making it far harder to react to.
In general, it just allows you to be much more flexible, I'm not sure what "Using it versus a moving tank" has to do with anything. |
I have not heard of it before.
It might have to do with camo lingering out of cover, but I can not remember if ST get that type of camo.
Stormtroopers are intended to get Elite Camo, to my knowledge. Sounds like the Balans team introduced a new bug when they fixed the "Storms can't upgrade to MP40s" one. Hopefully this gets fixed very soon, as Storms have gone from one flavour of useless to another with these recent bugs. |
I don't think the same 10 people playing the same tournaments doing the same 3 things and screeching about broken things that got broken thanks to them are doing the game any good.
There also won't be a team games balance pass because even then relic was still alive they didn't care about team games and this has been the case since CoH1.
The previous point also goes for this one - there won't be a CoH3 because there isn't a relic anymore.
Those people are "doing the game good", for the reasons I've already stated.
Yes, there is still a Relic. They're working on AoE4 as we speak. |
Let's be real here - drastic changes like that are very likely not to happen so jamming a square peg into a round hole is the best that will maybe happen.
UKF gaining a Mortar is only a "Drastic" change because Lelic maintain this weird autism when it comes to UKF's "Theme". They already have a mortar in Lendlease, and it doesn't break the faction to have it. Making it nondoctrinal fixes some factional issues with (as far as I can see) little to no downside. |
You currently get a similar MP spread on merging Conscripts into Guards, yet few do it and pros even advise against it from what I see.
Yes, you'd save a bit of MP, on the other hand you lose quite a lot of resources if your squad cannot hold its position as strongly. Ostheer squads really count on every single model performing decently. Especially PGrens who suffer heavily if they lose models.
Obviously I don't know how it exactly would turn out, but judging by the usage of Conscript merge on elite squads, it will likely be a bigger ability rework that won't bring much at all, even if you might gain an additional 30ish MP on the short term.
I agree, and it's what I've been trying to argue, as well. I would never want to replace grenadier models (Or, god forbid, Panzergrenadier models) with Ostruppen models, because the reduction in staying power (and so DPS, map control, etc) is simply not worth the saving in MP nor in the slightly quicker return to action. You're losing in the long term through a loss of overall map presence/territory.
Merge (and especially this inferior pseudo-merge) would be awful on Ostheer, SOV at least has the benefit of (almost) universal 6-man squads, which makes each individual unit's survivability less an issue (Though as you've said, this still isnt enough for Pros to make heavy use of it on units like Guards)... and this is also why Ostruppen are a six man squad. On four-man squads (Which is literally every squad this ability would be able to be used with) you are giving up far too much.
That is part of reason my suggestion was to replace conscripts/ost with a "new" squad that have target size 1 can merge but can not reinforce. This solution address most issues.
I mean, that's better i suppose, but still unusable on Panzergrenadiers, and not exactly stellar on Grens, either. |
Still waiting on you to provide a "better solution than vickers" for UK to deal with mortars.
The better solution is to give UKF a nondoctrinal Mortar, or an unit with a similar role such as the previously suggested "Forward Observation Officer".
Square Peg != Round Hole, and trying to force it to fit is why UKF is a mess. |
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