Volksgrenadiers late game performances seem to be extremely underwhelming.
Vet 5 Volksgrenadiers with the STG upgrade (260/25/60) consistently lose against the new 7 men squad Conscripts (240/18/50)
I ran multiple tests and Conscripts alway came out on top with 3 or 4 models left and about a fourth of the total HP pool
This deficiency can be attributed to the weird and unique veterancy bonuses of the Volks
Vet 1
-10% received accuracy. Vet 2
+30% accuracy.
-20% weapon cooldown. Vet 3
-14% received accuracy. Vet 4
+7 sight range in cover. Vet 5
Passive healing out of combat.
Vet 4 and Vet 5 bonuses aren't related to durability or dps of the unit, they are remnants from before OKW could easily backtech into Med HQ, and don't fit a mainline unit. Such bonuses could be changed into a cooldown/accuracy and RA boosts to help the unit
Part of it is that Volks have a fairly substantial spike after the first truck, and they receive their STGs... and that lategame they're expected to be "replaced" with Obersoldaten, who very convincingly obliterate Cons.
The main issue with that design is that the late timing of Obers means that OKW generally "need" four volk squads (Three seems to work sometimes, dependent on build/matchup). This and the mandatory Sturmpioneer is already a lot of population space taken up, and this is made even worse if you then add one (or, god, two) Ober squads to your build, who are exceedingly pricy in the population department. There's almost the implication that you should be losing a Volksgrenadier squad or two, which I can't say I'm a fan of.
Two changes I suggest, the first of which I know I've been droning on about for a couple of days:
A: Volks should lose their STG upgrade, and instead have a "Mobilise Reserves" styled upgrade later in the game, and have their veterancy rebalanced alongside. Obers should be brought back into the first truck at a weaker initial strength, scaling to their current power through tweaked veterancy, squad upgrades (Paid, or "automatic" with other trucks), and their MG34 be placed in the Schwerer. This solves both issues: Obers can be more readily fit into infantry builds without requiring volk loss (Fallschirmjager and JLI come sooner than Obers, and this is part of why both squads are so good), and Volks can have their performance curve smoothed out, remaining pretty much as they are in the early game (So as not to disrupt current balance) while being weaker (relatively) in the midgame (Which would be compensated by their ability to start building Obers earlier on, even if they would begin weaker than they are now), and scaling better into the lategame without necessarily being more deadly.
B: Soviets should receive an "Elite" infantry unit nondoctrinally. Either Penals should be able to "Refit" into some type of "Redeemed" unit, or some variant of Guards should be available nondoctrinally. Mobilise Reserves doesnt need changes, I don't think, certainly not a nerf.
And they perform much better up until late game.
They are also NOT a doctrinal unit, you are 1 patch too late to REEE about VGs. The fact of them not being addressed with the patch that was focusing on core army is a testament to how fine and balanced they are, inability to utilize unit properly does not mean the unit is bad.
Do you consider, say, UKF to be a well designed/balanced faction after both the previous, and this patch? Sections must presumably be fine, as they weren't too heavily tweaked in the last patch, and weren't touched in this commander patch.
They even /lost/ the only doctrinal mortar they had, so it seems like they definitely don't need mobile indirect.
No, they are not, they also were addressed in non commander focused patches.
Again, you are 1 patch too late for that. Stock units are NOT being changed, that ship has sailed.
Cope.
This is very childish, you and I both know you don't think the balance team is infallible. If you think Volksgrenadiers/OKW are fine as they are, then that's perfectly OK, you're entitled to your opinion. Don't pretend to hide behind the Balance Team's decisions though, and try to actually argue your case on its own merits.
Volks have to draw fire/tie down enemy inf as they where designed to do. Then let obers or whatever elite callin inf is out their deals the damage. Although the only thing that i would change on volks is their self heal to vet 3 and buff recc acc a bit at vet 5.
Accualy beating/bleeding inf isent the job for volks late game. Its obers wich should be made viable for this.
If we buff volks to section rifle level obers become irrelevant and faction play more simaler across the board. Wich imo isent good.
They don't really tie infantry down that well lategame, is the issue. They're stuck between being a "meatshield" and a "Damage-dealer" infantry unit, due to having been handed the STG upgrade at one point in balance, and being expected to be a (very temporary) shock infantry. Their veterancy is weak, which makes their survivability (and so their efficiency) fairly garbage lategame relative to other units, but their STGs do not scale well either, having a spike when they're upgraded, and steeply dropping down from there.
I've suggested multiple times that Volks ought to lean far more heavily into the "tarpit" design, losing their STG upgrades (and therefore their powerspike) in exchange for slightly improved (defensive, primarily) veterancy, and a "mobilise reserves" styled upgrade.
Obers/JLI/Fallschirmjager (and to a lesser extent, mostly in the early game; Sturms) are obviously the infantry that should be doing the damage for OKW, Volks shouldnt have their damage output buffed, certainly not in the lategame, but what they /should/ be is a more utilitarian meatshield, in the same design space as Conscripts.
The problem with CoH is that the modding community is running off of 3rd party tools which aren't even up to date with the game's systems at this point.
Hence why the mods folders need to be in the same place and in the same exact structure as the vanilla game files or else it all breaks apart instead of them being packages that can just be loaded by a mod manager in the game like maps. And I know that because I'm currently trying to mod it as we speak.
But in general yes as you said it's how the workshop or modding aspect was designed for both games sadly, for whatever reason compared to Arma 3 and Men of War like you said where being able to turn the game into anything really and just completely overhaul it is what brings so many people to flock to them.
I also just realized that maybe the reason for the Commander preview being a beta is because the mod tools for CoH2 haven't been updated in a while now, probably a few patches and I've read that somewhere else as well.
At bare minimum this theoretically does mean that texture edits (And model/animation edits, though they would take more effort on Lelic's part) are very possible, and in the worst case would just require that Lelic include them in an official patch to be "part" of the game.
Texture edits alone would provide quite a lot to the game, in terms of room to design new units, and to make existing units more diverse/readable.
As an illustrative example: Grenadiers currently use what appears to be Splittermuster 31 (or some variant), as do Assault Grenadiers. Assault Grenadiers could be easily retextured to instead use Sumpfmuster to differentiate them, both pictured below.
As a further example, Volksgrenadiers could well have their uniforms tinted from the current Feldgrau to Luftwaffe Blue (Feldblau? I'm not sure what it's designated as), if one were to wish to create a "Luftwaffe Ground Forces" unit for a doctrine. (simple model edits would even allow you to, for example, use Osttruppen Feldmütze to make them even more visually distinct. Both of these operations are quite simple, but provide a massive improvement to visuals, out of scale with the effort expended.
Panzergrenadier models are already used in such a way officially, with Jaeger infantry/Stormtroopers merely being Panzergrenadiers with what amounts to an inverted uniform. I do think that Relic providing modders, or at least solely the Balance Team, with the power to implement these things would open up a /massive/ amount of design space.
AS a way to sweeten the deal; It might also be an excuse to hold further Vehicle skin competitions, which would potentially bring some /very/ low-effort revenue into Relic's coffers.
Uhhh I can't say exactly for the Calliope or Priest since I don't remember there being a limit on these units in this game, but I think it was made so for the Pershing since it's limited to only 1 in the field at any given time so if you can just decrew it you could call in another one lol.
That's a good point actually, I think I'm mistaken.
Actually who knows, maybe its a possability, considering with new community manager we got some things moving, like updated anti-cheat and proper beta test version.
Its not like Relic will be requared to work on models, all they need to do is just generally allow them to be made (in at least ported from vCOH). They just need to provide tools for either 3Ds Max\Blender\Maya and agree to upload them later into the game build.
To my knowledge, people were already able to import models/animations/etc at one point, with or without dedicated tools. The functionality was just removed in a patch at some point.
Relic wouldn't even need to make any more tools, seemingly, they'd just need to re-enable an ability that already existed at one point,
I was more talking about the Pershing since it's specifically mentioned in the patch notes, and I quote:
"M26 Pershing
Pershing is being adjusted to be repaired faster due to its reliance on Rear Echelon squads to repair it. The Pershing is also receiving a slight speed buff once it has received veterancy to retain its role as a mobile heavy tank.
Health from 960 to 800
15% damage reduction to retain 6 shot kill but faster repair times
Veterancy 2 provides +10% speed bonus
CP requirement from 12 to 11".
I only mentioned the Calliope, and as NorthWeapon said the Priest, since those are pretty much the only USF vehicles without a crew that can't self-repair.
This is fair, though it seems like the lack of self-sufficiency is the primary intention behind their lacking crews, which would be countered by having crew repairs (Even though they'd cost Muni). It seems like they're /intentionally/ designed to require RE support.
Yeah, they have a cover bonus (with veterancy) that affects only their Stens, not a cover penalty. I can see how that might confuse someone though, it is a really weird "ability".
Just my opinion but maybe vehicles like the Pershing and Calliope without a crew can have a self-repair ability instead of buffs to their health.
When you say "Buffs to their Health" for the Calliope, do you mean up from the current 320HP, or from a standard HP of 100/160? If the latter, Crew Repairs would hardly matter, as you'd generally be oneshot anyway.
QoL suggestion for USF: An Ambulance deployed in the USF base sector can be designated as an "F"RP. As others have mentioned, USF retreats are rather inconsistent. Being able to direct your troops straight to the Ambulance seems like a relatively decent solution, and would solve this issue. The Ambulance already has different functionality when deployed in the base sector, gaining DR, after all.
Alternatively, if this is considered to cause a small balance concern (Slightly shortening retreats by deploying your ambulance RIGHT on the edge of your base sector), then perhaps two/three invulnerable structures (Model: The Beacon currently used for the Major FRP/Pathfinder Beacon/a few other uses) could be placed around the USF base stamp perimeter. One of these should be designated as the "retreat" point by default, with the USF player being able to switch the "retreat" point between them if necessary.
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