Profile of pvtgooner

Jump back to quoted post5 Aug 2019, 16:38 PMSkysTheLimit

That's only because it's bugged and sometimes permanently reveals units on minimap, even when they leave the detection range

Jump back to quoted post30 Jul 2019, 03:09 AMMazianni

Less damage than a howitzer and less mobile than a mortar. What category is most proper for the pack howitzer, if I had to choose between those two items, I can't say, but generally, since howitzer happens to actually be in the name of the unit, I err in that direction. At the end of the day, they are all indirect fire units, and comparisons can be made nevertheless in either direction.

And yes, it is expensive. Is it worth it's price? Yes. Because of it's barrages? No. Range? The autoattack range is even the same as the Ostheer mortar, and I would be willing to suggest that two grw34s would probably do more damage overall than a single pack howitzer (480mp vs 340mp). But you pay for the consistent output it delivers; having an autoattack that is effective at dislodging a static enemy. This is why any proposal to remove or nerf autofire MUST either allow the M1 to still perform this role adequately still, or (more likely, given the limitation of barrage and the probability that autofire would be overnerfed) allow it to deal more damage in bursts via buffed barrages, making it more like the other howitzers in the game.

And yes, it is very fragile. Certainly as much as, if not moreso, than any 240mp mortar in the game. Saying walking stukas of all things are the only counter to the pack Howie is like saying the M36 is the only counter to Axis armor (and might as well imply that mortars themselves are all uncounterable). As said already, the autoattack range is already matched by all of your own Ostheer IDF options; the pack howitzer's range advantage is only apparent in its barrages. The crew all wear 1.25 target size bullet magnet vests, and clump directly around the howitzer at all times, hence the often repeated and very much accurate claim that a single P4 hit could decrew it. To make matters even easier, I have repeatedly suggested some sort of teardown/setup nerf to make this unit even more vulnerable to either call-in artillery/strikes or flanks/pushes than it already is.

Furthermore, we've already discussed methods of reworking this unit in a way that removes or nerfs autofire while keeping it useful; you're the one who has continuously fallen apart over the mere suggestion that the Pack Howitzer be anything but a long range mortar (and, apparently, the only one you want USF to have, if you still believe anything you said in your first post in this thread), when it has been abundantly clear over and over that nobody is going to pay 340 manpower and 8 popcap for a mortar that cannot lay free smoke and which is utterly fucked if ever contacted by the enemy since it cannot retreat. Nor will anyone pay the same for a barrage-only howitzer that is generally incapable of killing a single model.

You refuse to answer my questions because you have absolutely no real suggestions beyond an impulsive nerf to essentially remove a unit from the game. The fact your main complaint about the unit is now it's range, when everyone up to this point, and even yourself, have been talking about the autoattack capability, proves as much.

There's no argument to cherrypick. You have offered absolutely nothing constructive this entire thread.

Jump back to quoted post27 Jul 2019, 23:35 PMDoomlord52

Read my self-quoted post above; the problem is that the Pak Howitzer is incredibly powerful without user input (i.e. auto-fire). And it's not just against support weapons; the vast majority of OST infantry units need to stand still to be effective (LMG-grens, etc.). All a USF player needs to do is put a pak-howi in auto-fire range, ignore it, and focus on riflemen. The Axis player won't be able to do anything, since standing still isn't a choice (hit by PAK), moving isn't a choice (can't fire LMGs on the move), and relying on support weapons also isn't a choice (MG42 needs to stay still...).

You can basically disrupt the entire design of OST's army with effectively ZERO user input.

Jump back to quoted post26 Jul 2019, 16:05 PMLago

Mechanically, it's less radical and less impactful than the tech changes the recent patches have made. All you're doing is tweaking the penetration curve to spike up within 10 metres. Patches make changes like that all the time.

I'm not exaggerating when I say this change'd probably take less than two hours of work to implement. You literally only need to change four numbers for each vehicle.



In terms of actually being able to use the point blank mechanic, not much. If a player doesn't want your T-34s at point blank range of his tank, he has a plethora of tools to stop you.

This is by far and away the biggest deal for the T-34 and Cromwell, which are fast tanks with iffy penetration.

For example, take killing Panthers with T-34s.

• You need at least two T-34s, which is already a higher resource investment than the Panther.
  
• You need a way to keep the Panther from reversing (snare it, button it, flank and block it, ram it with a third T-34)
  
• You need to clear out its AT support.
  
• You need to clear out every snaring infantry squad nearby, because one snare will completely neuter a tank.

I think the biggest impact is likely to be the threat of it. It's still going to be almost impossible to kill a supported heavy tank with mediums (or a supported medium tank with lights) but an unsupported heavier tank marauding around the enemy backline with no support is in danger.