No offense but maybe clumping up units right next to each other, especially in the late game in team matches where it's basically an arty fest, is not the best of ideas?
Just saying.
I mean I also see it in other games as well like Foxhole, not just here.
this actually shows its effectiveness, since you don't need to be very good to inflict serious damage. There are units like ostruppen that shine through cost effectiveness, but you need to apply pressure with them and trade with the opponent, which is a skill that lack mid-low rank players. With ST you just need to it set up and click 2 buttons.
Pretty similar situation was with ISU, when you could camp 1 VP from 70 range and wreck everything. No skill was needed, just a suitable doctrine with this unit.
Nope that does not make sense, the effect would be the same.
Please do not write things that are of topic of you are afraid of derailing a thread.
OST flamer upgrade competes for muni with healing, mg42s and g43s for grens, while flamer for SOV is decent damage boost for con openings + it competes only with mines early game. While higher vet does not provide a lot of combat bonuses for combat engies, it reduced downtime for t70 later a lot (+60% repair speed for engies with vet 2). Take a look at top players that rarely skip flamer upgrade with SOV and even go with 2 flamers vs particular builds, on the contrary it is ok for OST to skip flamer all together.
These are units with different use cases. If you need fast antitank platform with hefty sight range (50) - command panther is better. If you looking for all-rounder that can hit armor and infantry from considerable range - command tiger is better.
I'd even argue that command tiger is better, because Grand Offensive is an all round very good doctrine. But in general both units are far from OP, so you look for a package that better suits your needs and playstyle.
because you get your vet later, hence increased vet requirements. And it hurts SOV more. Sov flamer is better then OST because of merge. It is very common to not upgrade Pios with flamer, while it is very rare to see SOV without one. Please, no derailment.
really interesting stuff, great work! i've always wondered how fast/effective repairs are among the different factions, now i can finally look it up in a sleek table.
thanks. But there are obviously more to this, since there are more bonuses (UKF), different upgrades and units (vehicle crew, assault engies, cons/penals, pgrens etc) that could be added. This table is mostly about the current topic, since it is about stock repair units.
Eastern front sweeper engineers are the only utility units left in the game that is not meant to participate in combat, yet doesn't receive shared beterancy. I mean look, every officer (even tho some of them can take very good care of themselves), halftracks (even tho some of them can be upgraded to be very relevant in combat), the kubel and now even the M3 scout car receives shared veterancy. Western front enginners can grab AT weapons to quickly gain xp.
The sweeper pios and CEs are the only units left in the whole game that has trouble getting xp for themselves.
I still say their vet requirements should be increased a bit and grant them shared veterancy.
Increased vet requirements means less vet for flamers and this hurts SOV more then OST.
There are a lot of questions that are needed to be addressed before making any conclusion. Although there is case that shows sweeper almost brings repair speed of CE and pios to the level of vet 0 sturms/Royal Engineers. But in teams of pop cap and price CE and pios are cheaper. Of course potential utility of sturms and royal engies reaches beyond repairing and sweeping, especially this applies to sturms (no cries for nerfs, just to be clear).
I understood all these as flat values, at least the values check out with the veterancy guide if taken as absolute values. I don't know if this repair speed is further modified. Does it really take a minute for a single pio squad to repair a P4 back to full health? I really can't tell.
Assuming this is true: Your table needs more decimals, the rounding makes it look weird. And assuming that the values provide an absolute boost, I would annotate them as absolute values and not relative modifiers (otherwise your calcs will be incorrect).
Another metric that would be worth calculating is the repair rate per pop as some value for efficiency, but maybe that's only me.
So I read all the vets and bonuses carefully and edited the table. Took me some time to wrap my head around every bonus and some vets.
The "shady" bonus appears to be alright, because it makes a clean value. I added it after the 25% bonus were applied. Although you can go so far on "what appears to be correct".
Ages ago I searched for them and made this post. Topic and context were different back then, as well as the sweeper repair boost was not implemented yet. So basically ignore the argumentative part.
But these were the numbers I found in the editor.
The OKW T2 repairatrons turned out to have a repair speed of 3 each, making it 9 in total.
I've made a table with multipliers (everything with flat bonuses converted to multipliers) base speed, flat bonuses, values with bonuses per model and full squad values with all bonuses added (2 variants for UKF).
Bonuses are:
USF - 5th man.
Royal Engineers - Heavy Sapper upgrade (+0.525)
OKW - Sweeper (+25%). Added option with "shady bonus" (Have no idea if it applies to flat base value or to accumulated value with bonuses)
CE/pios - Sweeper (+0.3)
If everything is correct, I'll publish values in separate thread, so people could actually google it, because such data is extremely hard to find
Edit: edited some values, edited table with what seems like correct values, some annotation for better reading and row with values per population.
About the sweeper slot from the recent Winter Balance Patch:
First: it seem the there were several stages of bringing OST and SOV engies repair speed inline with others by nerfing repair speed of Western Armies engie's.
Second: by removing sweeper as a weapon slot opened a vet opportunity for echelons and royalengies (weapon racks). Same with shrek for sturms, although it is a good combat unit as is. So now there is an unfair situation for pios and combat engies, because they don't have access to any weapons apart from pickups, if they get a sweeper. Pretty much why I think this tread is a thing.
Also it would be really appreciated if somebody broke down the full repair speeds of all engies in the game per entity.
Aweeeeeee......... Jee........ I never thought of doing that. Stupid me thank you oh smart big brain mister for such an Insightful advice my single digit IQ brain could have never come up with something like this. This must be the intelligence of a quadruple digit brain. My mind has been blown.
you do what you do and how you want to do it, my man. Just don't get carried away, ok?
: does tank commander increase accuracy of hull and coaxial MGs?
Relic Entertainment
cblanco ★ 
보드카 중대 
VonManteuffel 
Heartless Jäger 
