Profile of SeductiveCardbordBox

Yes that is true, but the original post was comparing croc and firefly to KT an insisting they had a similar tech cost

No it wasn't, that's just a convenient moving of a goalpost.

I said that a Croc and Firefly are 385 fuel. Which, as a raw fuel cost for the physical vehicles, is well in excess of a KT. It's a shit ton of fuel.

CP/Tech/Etc is circumstantial. It factors wait times and unlocks and all else. Yes, you can rush out a Firefly. No, you can't rush a Croc, it has a CP lock. Yes, rushing denies you a lot of upgrades an OKW players gets as they tech.

Doesn't matter.

If anybody wants to say 'oh being able to rush a FireFly is as impactful as a King Tiger' I can't stop them, but I am going to look down my nose at the suggestion that a FF has anything remotely similar to the field presence of a KT. Come on. Try harder.

There's a lot to unpack in there. But the summary of it all, root cause style, is this:

They were designed as a totally different faction that had severe drawbacks to offset their buffs.

They have since been fixed, slowly, but retain legacy issues directly because of the original (awful) design.

Base defences were a thing back when they were expected to have next to no map control and a small number of elite units. These days, they have fausts early enough, light vehicles can be focused down and/or have been delayed/price increased. They have T0 racketens. They have zero reason to be more immune to base raids than the soviets or USF. But they always did, so they still do. If nothing else, at least they fixed them shooting down planes. Just like the T3, which still can... just because.
(Amusingly enough, their mainline infantry used to all be able to buy a shreck, so... frankly, even then, this design was stupid)

Vet 5 is the same thing. They used to be expected to have a huge resource penalty and make use of a small core of elite infantry. They were the pinnacle of the pants-backwards historical snubbing of 'if Axis survive to late game they are supposed to just win, hands down', because we all know Germany won WWII. Nonsense aside, it was a hideous design philosophy that people on the forums defended anyway. It has mostly gone away now, thank god, and the previously super broken vet levels are now mostly the same as other armies. But it's still an advantage for OKW mostly because of their previously hamstringed past.


Fill in the rest yourself. Once upon a time OKW were gimped by design. They took off the handcuffs and have very slowly been toning down their BS, but its a long road and there's not a lot of cash left for them to keep doing overhauls.

You all forget one Thing: FF need much less resources to tech/ get...it comes in the t3 from brits...while all other lategame TDs comes t4. so it must be more expansive...

No we don't, and no, it doesn't have to be.

Brits have an advantage when it comes to tech rushing, yes, but they also have to pay above and beyond for things other armies get for free.

It isn't a disadvantage for brits. But the firefly still takes a long time to produce, so it isn't impacting on light vehicle play, and UKF total teching is comprable to every other army.

30 T1, 120 T2. Costs for unlocking their T1 optional unit, cost for their T2 packages. Bolster, weapon racks and grenades. In total their full tech tree costs over 200, much like everyone else. Not the most expensive, but comprable.

Tech and build times are what balance out the unit arrival. Making a unit more expensive just because it can arrive early is god awful deaign that punishes longer games with cost inefficient units, punishing a player for every one they have to build beyond the first. It's not good design and it is not to be encouraged.

If you honestly believe the firefly arrives too early, put it behind the hammer/anvil. Don't make it too expensive for what it does.

KT isn't 260 fuel, your calculations are still wrong.

And last time I checked three OKW tiers cost more than 2 UKF tiers.

So it is. Had the old value in my head.

So the most expensive option is as much as the Croc/FF, the other three stand at cheaper.

I'm not including teching because the mix of tech tiers, sidegrades and optional unlocks make it a complex mess that deserves a thread of its own - but in general, works out fine and with similar total expense. The CP delay for the croc and builsing delay for the KT stack up and unless you float a lot and double down on inf AT neither is your first vehicle.


Regardless, the point was much, much simpler.

Croc + Firefly is good. Kf course it is. It's nearly 400 sodding fuel spent on vehicles. Any conbination of 400 fuel of vehicles is going to be a tour de force.

A Croc and a FF is 385 fuel.

You can get a King Tiger, Flack HT/Puma/Luchs/Stuka and IR truck at that less than that fuel cost, of course it's going to be a strong combination.

The Firefly still has an awful damage output for its cost and that does matter - a lot.

Being able to burn a boat load of munitions every single engagemrnt to push back axis armour is not a useful expense.

Alpha damage means nothing whenn the tme to kill an enemy tank gives them a huge window to cause bleed, and thr sluggish reload and movement speed give tanks a large grace window with which to escape after they hit the 1-hit threshold.

At vet 3 it starts to really pay for itself, but the journey to get there is awful.