Would be a bit OP if you ask me, considering they perform somewhat like vet3 grens strate of the bat and being able to have them rather quickly if you go for med HQ.
Its more like Schwerer HQ could have been cheaper to build, while cost difference transfered to its upgrade. In this case you would be able to just afford them ealier, without changing how faction works. But I agree, that by the time obersts arive its pretty much pointless to use them without LMG, which is a shame.
Vet5 STG volks are good for late game, they can stand more or less ground vs vetted uped inf somewhat, problem is all their power comes from vet and if you lose vetted volks there is pretty much no replacement aside from obersts\doc inf, since its already takes almost full game to vet them up.
Other mainline inf at least have powerful upgrades (like 7 men cons) or weapons upgrades to make even un-vetted new squad somewhat usefull.
With Panzerfusilers being better in almost every way, with AT AND AI grenade, with the option to go G43's or Schreks, and only cost 10 more manpower, the only reason to chose Volks is the flame nade or doctrinal abilities like bunkers and mines.
Fuzilers in the late game give Allies plenty of trouble. I still think they are more useful than Obers because of timing and versitility; they only drawback is they are locked behind doctrine.
Vet 5 Volks are still squishy for what they are.
In a distant way, its similar to what was happening with Soviets. Conscripts were simply not good enough before 7 man and SVT's, so many guys went with Penals.
You see a lot more conscript builds post patch. As well you should. |
On offtopic I disagree with that
OKW is not agressive but rather evasive, they are all about ambushing with STpios and delaying the opponent, because in a 1v1 matchup volks can effectively fight only Conscripts.
OST is defensive
USF is offensive
Soviets can chose, but closer to offensive anyway
UKF is something in between
Well depending on their build, when they throw sniper after they got enouth mainline inf its hard, but by that time you can get somesort of the counters. Like JLI for excample.
If they build snipers in early game, then I find its easy in 3v3 to just suicide rush it with kubel when opportunity allows. Because even if kubel dies, you still will win in a MP bleed anyway.
The original OKW meta was "Dive deep, hope it sticks, use your mobility and advanced weaponry."
Now it's more of a combined-arms stall faction. Be elusive, engage in unfair fights, and preserve your units until late game armor comes in to establish dominance on the field.
Honestly I wish Obers timing could be on first building built, and MG/STG unlock upon Panzer HQ built. I still think they come a bit late, and when they do, they have to fight for their lives against vetted mainline infantry because they come so late.
I wish something could be done to help Volks be less squishy during the late game. One thing I suggested is having a doctrine similar to Soviet airborne where instead of SVT's, you can drop G43's for your infantry. |
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Honestly they don't need it. You have a ISG to smoke/barrage, Volks with flamenade, and Obers with nuke nade.
As well as a Luchs/Puma. And an IR Halftrack for spotting.
A sniper is unnecessary. |
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As stated above, Flaktrack is okay.
I always try to engage in unfair engagements 2v1 Strums vs. Penals; 2v1 Volks STG vs. Penals, even one Strum and Kubel properly microed gives you an oppurtunity to force a retreat.
Squad wiping is great, but forcing a retreat is just as good. Get that munition advantage early on and get to your Puma/Luchs/Flaktrack.
With OKW, unit preservation is a big, big deal. Extremely big deal. Especially your starting strum 1v1. |
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Have to agree with the above said; Kubelwagens are a very effective counter against snipers.
Be very careful with them early game though. |
Much better to get Puma instead. It counters all Allied LVs and helps a lot against medium tanks when kept alive. It also does better than people think against infantry. Yes it does not have great DPS and wont wipe anything but you can use it to push units out of cover, let it shoot at units in cover to destroy the cover so your Volks win the engagement and on top of that the Puma actually racks up a few infantry kills too with a combination of steady MG DPS and RNG shots deleting single models. It's often enough to have the Puma around to give the needed edge to win infantry engagements.
Almost all the recent tournaments featured heavy Puma use and little usage of Luchs, there is a reason for that.
Luchs can still be good vs. Soviets because it actually has a good window of opportunity before T70 arrives and even then won't be countered too hard anyway because the T70 needs a long time to actually kill a Luchs, long enough to get Volks and Raketenwerfer to safe it. AEC hardcounters it before it even hits the field, Stuart arrives at the same time of Luchs and also hardcounters it.
I tend to agree with this sentiment. I much prefer a Puma to a Luchs because of its scaleability. Late game; a Luchs is very vulnerable; to AT penals, to Zis AT guns, to ANY light/medium tank, and Conscripts have a nade that reliably snares it.
For its cost, its just not good enough. Would be a better choice if its fuel cost was 30/40 rather than 60. And since it can't take on a T70, would like to see it get a movement speed buff. |
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AEC does *not* suck ass against infantry units, lol.
It can wreck any light German vehicle, and has sufficent DPS against infantry. They are brutal. xD
But like with any vehicle, you've got to keep it supported.
As for Soviets, consider building a Penal. They own the field early game until your opponent PG's/STG44's and they can still kill a unit or two before you are forced to retreat with them.
They also have an AT package with a homing AT grenade (I call it a curveball, because if your vehicle is retreating at an angle, the grenade will actually 'curve' toward your vehicle.)
IMO shock troops are the best AI units in the game for what they do. 6 man, High DPS at close range with body armor and a twitch grenade. Their timing is great as well.
I've tried a vetted Ober MG34 squad that has ambushed Shocks over open ground; not good enough.
I've used an MG34 Obers backed up with a vetted Volks squad. Usually this works, but sometimes the MG34 does not damage quickly enough and is naded.
The only thing that I have found that works as OKW that is not an emplacement/vehicle/mg, is two Fallschimjagers with double FG-42's. And they have to be spread out because that twitch grenade really put a number on them.
Fallschirms are actually better that Obers even though they are not as tough; they can get on the field early enough to do some good.
Keep in mind my experiences are mainly 1v1.
So, in conclusion, you may want to supplant your conscripts with penals and shocks.
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Lol, I wonder who they are. 
Yeah, soon as I saw it, I knew he was talking about Kaitof. xD
I will agree about Smurs though. Smurfs, in any skill based game, ruin gameplay experience because they want to play the game on easy mode.
I liken it to a HS football team paying a Power 5 college QB to play a game so they can win it.
Personally, I don't care. Anyone, anytime, anywhere.
But smurfs are pieces are garbage, and should be considered cheaters. |
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I've been using more Luftwaffe doctrine in my games, and build for T3/T4 rather than T2/T4.
I've found that flak emplacements are good for snaring elite infantry, but the only play when I build T3 is the Luchs or Puma.
I understand that it's supposed to be an AI/Scout tank, but it doesn't have the killing power of a T70, gets owned by a T70 when it hits the field, and one Conscript AT grenade makes it absolutely exposed.
I find myself going for the Puma that can smash light vehicles better, and can take out a T70.
Am I using the Luchs II wrong? What am I missing? I'd honestly rather have a clown car than a Luchs II because of its dual purpose capability and the flame projectors are very effective.
What say you? |
If i lose my starting sturms i am lacking repair tools till lategame. Once i got into a dire Situation where3 tanks were all heavily damaged but got back into safety it took literal minutes to either get the 4th truck up or save 300 mp not reinforcing the mainline.
Loosing them is a critical hit on OKW ecosystem. Imo volks should be more allround than Sturmpios are atm.
Brits got a totally unnessecary Medic squad. What about a totally unnessecary mechanics squad for okw? Rofl.
Agree on this. You lose your starting Strum squad...not saying it's GG, but it's extremely tough and uphill from there. |
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