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Yeah... I dont much like the idea of replacing Riflemen like Axis now switches between their infantry. I do however think, if it were me designing the faction and not Relic, I'd have upped their rifle damage to be at least equal to the m1 carbine, and lower the ammo count to 8(7) to compensate. This would give them better burst damage and make them less dependant on BARing up while keeping average dps about the same. Then Id get rid of those stupid weapon racks and have all upgrades be in-unit, still unlocked by tech. Its not like anyone puts BARs on ass engies or Rangers or whatnot anyway. Standardize bazooka damage around the current 'elite' model to make them viable as a drawback for not being able to dump them on REs. I'd also equalize all of the hidden maluses riflemen get that nobody talks about, like an extremely slow turn speed and worse cone of fire.
And yeah, Id buff the M2HB (or at least its AP ammo! Come on, the MG42 is far better versus vehicles thanks to its massive ROF advantage) so the LT tier isnt completely hopeless against armor and vehicles. Again Id also remove the hidden maluses the M2HB gets like longer aim time and aim time after firing.
The LT unit itself could also use a utility ability of some sort, like CPT has now, since it is otherwise a RM unit with worse RA and a lower ROF tommy gun. And the same 150 rotation crap.
But the AT gun is fine as is, so is most of the unit roster besides the LT tier, RM, and not having any halfway useful mines whatsoever outside of doctrine and the M20 M6 mine that literally nobody uses, since the M20 is more situational than any other LV I can think of. (The m20 also really needs the pathetic AP vet looked at, since right now it is an absolutely negligible modifer that grants a huge total of 1.5 penetration at point blank range and .5 at max range, for totals of 4.5 and 1.5 respectively. I would say double or even triple the modifier, at the very least, so penetration approaches the stock m2hb's and it becomes capable of damaging a 222 more than once out of every five or so shots.) |
Is it technicly possible to split the balance changes across the gamemodes? Assuming of course Relic would agree on it. Idea would be to remain the CP requirement for 3v3/4v4 and pin heavies into T4 in 1v1 and 2v2 - as it is a good change.
PS: If Tiger comes in 15 min mark then panther (which costs 45 fuel less) will hit the field around 13 min but no1 ever complained about that and people apparently found a way to deal with it.
...but people do complain about panther spam in team games... It's the whole reason why the M36 thread is so many pages long.
Is there really any sort of real rational reason not to have HTs behind both tech AND CPs, or is the whole line of defense for this adjustment simply stubbornly implying that this system works perfectly fine now and such a change would somehow ruin something. |
I think all team weapons' original crews have horrible RA modifiers though, not just USF. .50 cal experiences face wipes all the time because of the long times between bursts it has (at least in my experience). Blobs will just walk up, tank the first burst with veterancy and the stupid volks get less suppression bulletin, and facewipe the .50 before it can even get a second burst off. Doesn't help that it has a worse deathloop than maxim on retreat lol. THat being said, it's still one of the best stock mgs in the game IMO.
+1 about the icon for AP, on the mg42 too.
At 280 MP and the mostly useless LT sidetech it had better be the best, and yet it never really feels good enough for me. The Vickers out-DPSes it and the AP feels incredibly weak compared to the MG42 and (to lesser extent) MG34. To such a point that I dont know if it even needs an indicator. The 50 cal should, quite frankly imo, already do big damage to light vehicles, which would perhaps offset some of the LT path's AT weaknesses, though it might be too much and Im really not sure it could be balanced. |
The primary reason I do not advocate changing major parts of the doctrine, such as the Easy Eight, is because it has been a staple part of the commander from its inception and if you were to move it to a different commander then you now have to rework two commanders.
As far as I can tell, all of the USF commanders are pretty good, with just a few standing out as very good ( Heavy Cavalry ), and Rifle Company standing out as pretty bad.
So I think that a rework of Rifle Company should do these four things:
1. Leave the core features alone so the company plays as similar to how it was originally intended. Easy Eights, Fire Up and WP smoke have got to stay.
2. Combine weak abilities together as a bundle keeping in line with how they are currently being bundled in other commanders.
3. No elite infantry! It’s all about the Riflemen in this commander. Hence the suggested Sergeant upgrade and Riflemen field defenses.
4. Do not make changes that require other commanders to also be adjusted.
Literally all this commander needs is a price decrease (since I doubt the debuff is going away) for Fire Up and Flares (should be equivalent to PanzerFusilier Flares at 35 munitions). Just like that it becomes useable.
If we combined flares and fire up into one package since theyre both cp2 anyway, rifleman field defenses is the ONLY thing I would add, since it perfectly fits the theme of the commander and gives it something meaningful early game. |
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I should leave this thread off with a reminder that the M36 is also the only reliable AT weapon someone going LT->LV->Major will get without backteching. Not a tremendous concern if M36 stays accessible, but something to consider. Captain is already very much the meta choice unless someone is trying to play hard in the midgame with a stuart (in which case Major gets considerably delayed anyway) |
If you look at my little poll I made recently tech+CP requirement seems to be what nearly 2/3 of the people that voted want. This is a community patch after all 
https://www.coh2.org/topic/91865/timing-of-heavy-and-super-heavy-tanks-across-all-game-modes
For me its the only way to have heavy tank timing similar across all game modes if we don't want to touch ressource inflation and fuel transfer in the big teamgames (although this would be even better). It doesn't matter how long the build time becomes heavy tanks without CP requirement will be always way faster available in 3vs3 & 4vs4.
Maybe the most important thing: Before this patch you got the heavy AT counter off-map abilities at the same time as you got the heavy tanks out to have a chance to finish them off in a tank battle. So theoretically this abilities have to be moved to tech requirement too if you stick to tech requirements... this change really affects more than just tank battle timing, it affects the whole construct of CP requirements for units and abilities.
Please don't get me wrong I appreciate your work and the bunch of time you guys are investing although you have RL stuff to do. The patch is a real good one overall.
A great point about the abilities directly designed to combat heavy late-game armor, like P-47 rockets, which still comes out at CP12.
Why should these abilities be CP-locked if heavy tanks aren't? Again, if call-in stalls are considered the main damage to the game why not have both CP and tech reqs? |
As I said before, it doesn't, i.e. Command Panther and IS2 meta.
It's why most call-ins have been removed and tied to tech.
So have both as a requirement. I'd be more than willing to wager it can be done, and it'd please everybody not invested in rushing a HT out in 15 minutes. |
For all the posts, I have yet to see a single example of people actually getting 15 min Tigers without there a) being a major skill gap between the players b) the game essentially being over already.
I mean, the only replay was the one Sander93 looked at, and that appears to have been the case of a Allied negligence bordering on incompetence.
In particular, the Tiger Ace at 15 mins in a competitive match, seems like a bit of dubious claim.
Sincerely hope the balance exercises caution and thought before ruining something that works perfectly well in 1v1 and 2v2.
The CP system also worked perfectly well in 1v1 and 2v2. I see no reason why they couldn't use both, with CP req possibly reduced down to 10 or so. There's absolutely no reason for heavy tanks to be a cp0 unlock when so many other units and abilities are tied to CP levels. |
First off, give the 50 another go, fantastic MG, arguably the best (as it should for price) same with the pak howi mate. Absolutely a monster (especially once vetted)
If the unit is supposed to be behind lines and defensive anyways then there is no reason for it to have enough health to brawl (as in effectively defend itself against a dive, which no other 60 range TD can. A microd medium will end all other 60 range TDs but the Jackson has the mobility and turret to react but also the health to survive.
I don't want the uniy gutted, but it does need toned down
I could see a minor health drop. I just dont know if that makes it too vulnerable for someone who does go LT, since his only other AT options would be zooks and an M6 mine for 60mun. For a captain with an AT gun itd be fine, I suppose, as long as the battle takes place near it and its not a panther or above.
On an unrelated note, how do you personally play the pak howi? I always hear how good it is versus infantry, but outside killing blobs I dont usually see it; Id rather rush a Sherman out or use my mortar for killing MGs, and when I watch replays I usually see the pack howi is too slow to escape infantry pushes, something the mortar can do well enough. |
You don't need to use a sherman. Usf is given at least 3 units for free that can use smoke if you tech grenades. You also have t0 mortar, pak howi and even the Scott as cheaper alternatives.
You are talking both like the Jackson has no support and like it has all the support, it's very confusing (is that the point?) you are also acting as though usf lack AI unless it's a vehicle which is quite untrue. The power of the Jackson allows the usf player to stack their AI power because they know the Jackson will be enough to tackle what ever they face. Therein lies the issue for both balance but also viability and variety of other units. The alternatives would need some buffs of course but the ultimate weapon Jackson needs some nerfs too
Also, Jackson's have the same amount of health as any other non premium medium tank, but ALSO +20 range. Diving doesn't have to be slogging through the enemy rear lines when you can shoot over them. The Jackson has enough durability to get in there for a final shot and get out, I've played this game plenty, I know.
If we are talking about pushes, I highly doubt you're going to be supporting a diving M36 with RE smoke or a mortar smoke round. Maybe a M8, but I personally don't build those and wouldn't think they'd be resiliant enough to push with the M36.
I give the M36 support in these situations when its used defensively, in its own lines, like it is supposed to be, with its good mobility and subpar sight and armor. I assume no support when its pushing, because suddenly it has no spotters or local AI.
I also tend to discount the idea of USF stacking AI more than any other faction considering the M2HB is hot garbage and the pak howi is too vulnerable. Maybe that's my mistake, but I just cant see USF having anything there that other factions wouldn't have, and certainly not with two M36s already deployed. |
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