USF Rifle Company Rework

Sure, but it also working on Pios isn't why the Ost Vet upgrade doesn't have so many bonuses.

Isn't it? If the veteran squad leader upgrade was only available to grenadiers, I imagine it would actually be a lot stronger because it'd have to justify taking up a commander slot and being worth it.

Now, that isn't to say I disagree with your voicing a concern of it being too much, but if we're talking about commander abilities I think it's important to look at the whole benefit of the commander ability and not just a portion of it.

0cp - ass engineer

0cp - Ez8 : add HVAP swapping

0cp - rifleman field defense

2cp - field veteran training : unlock sprint(5sec) and flare(45->35muni)

4cp - observation artillery support : unlock rapid barrage to lieutenant and captain, Major now can use White phosphorous smoke barrage

I would rather simply see flamers being swamp for rifle-grenades and moved to riflemen (maybe taking all weapon slots).

That is OP

rifle grenade(tommy) in coh1 had very low accuracy

coh2 rifle grendae also should have low accuracy

Coh2 is cover-fight game

Frequent firing of rifle grenade that ignore the cover results in a major balance problem



The mod team that created them must have a very poor understanding of the game(include no CP limited tigers and buff ostwind)

pathetic team

Okay, let me put forward my own version of his doctrine and we can all laugh at how bad it is.

0CP - Rifleman Field Defenses
2CP - Veteran Squad Leaders (upgrade riflemen to 6 men. Locks out weapon upgrades.)
3CP - M3 halftruck call in (can reinforce squads on the field and distribute repair kits)
8CP - Requisition veteran units (for the cost of 300mp/50 fuel, call in a vet 3 rifleman squad. Hard limit to 5 times per game.)
8CP - Artillery barrage

That is OP

rifle grenade(tommy) in coh1 had very low accuracy

coh2 rifle grendae also should have low accuracy

Coh2 is cover-fight game

Frequent firing of rifle grenade that ignore the cover results in a major balance problem



The mod team that created them must have a very poor understanding of the game(include no CP limited tigers and buff ostwind)

pathetic team

The rifle grenade can be adjusted. Imo it should simply not be available to a cheap spammable unit like R.E. .

Even it current state if it take both weapon slot it would be allot better balance in rifle men than RE since it would less spam able.

In addition the double rifle-grenade from fighting pits would be removed.

The rifle grenade can be adjusted. Imo it should simply not be available to a cheap spammable unit like R.E. .

Even it current state if it take both weapon slot it would be allot better balance in rifle men than RE since it would less spam able.

In addition the double rifle-grenade from fighting pits would be removed.

It does not matter whether you can or can not spam

The existence itself is a problem

If you want to add rifle grenade, rifle grenade should be change it like the Grenadier rifle grenade(only one active skill)

0cp - ass engineer

0cp - Ez8 : add HVAP swapping

0cp - rifleman field defense

2cp - field veteran training : unlock sprint(5sec) and flare(45->35muni)

4cp - observation artillery support : unlock rapid barrage to lieutenant and captain, Major now can use White phosphorous smoke barrage

Not a terrible concept, but Assault Engineers don’t really fit the theme of Rifle Company. To be honest neither does RE flamethrowers, but that was done originally to take flamethrowers away from Riflemen themselves.

Okay, let me put forward my own version of his doctrine and we can all laugh at how bad it is.

0CP - Rifleman Field Defenses
2CP - Veteran Squad Leaders (upgrade riflemen to 6 men. Locks out weapon upgrades.)
3CP - M3 halftruck call in (can reinforce squads on the field and distribute repair kits)
8CP - Requisition veteran units (for the cost of 300mp/50 fuel, call in a vet 3 rifleman squad. Hard limit to 5 times per game.)
8CP - Artillery barrage

Not actually terrible, but it has two glaring problems.

1. No Easy Eight. The Easy Eight is only in Rifle Company and should be retained in it as it is a staple of the Commander.

2. Veteran Riflemen used to be a thing and they were removed because units with free veterancy were deemed to be difficult to balance and generally not that fun to use.

Replace the veteran Riflemen call in with the Easy Eight and it would be pretty good.

Not actually terrible, but it has two glaring problems.

1. No Easy Eight. The Easy Eight is only in Rifle Company and should be retained in it as it is a staple of the Commander.

2. Veteran Riflemen used to be a thing and they were removed because units with free veterancy were deemed to be difficult to balance and generally not that fun to use.

Replace the veteran Riflemen call in with the Easy Eight and it would be pretty good.

I would rather see the Easy 8 in armor company thematically.

Rifle company could be more like Ostheer infantry commander with better base infatry instead of superior armor. (Although one could make move dozer to the commander and redesigning it as indirect fire support tank or an infatry support tank)

0CP: Easy 8

0CP: Flamethrower for RE and flares for riflemen

3CP: Scoped M1 Garands upgrade for riflemen (grants sprint, 5 sec duration no aftereffect, no weapon racks required)

4CP: M8 Greyhound (was supposed to be WC51 instead but it got destroyed last patch)

6CP: WP barrage

I would rather see the Easy 8 in armor company thematically.

Rifle company could be more like Ostheer infantry commander with better base infatry instead of superior armor. (Although one could make move dozer to the commander and redesigning it as indirect fire support tank or an infatry support tank)

The primary reason I do not advocate changing major parts of the doctrine, such as the Easy Eight, is because it has been a staple part of the commander from its inception and if you were to move it to a different commander then you now have to rework two commanders.

As far as I can tell, all of the USF commanders are pretty good, with just a few standing out as very good ( Heavy Cavalry ), and Rifle Company standing out as pretty bad.

So I think that a rework of Rifle Company should do these four things:

1. Leave the core features alone so the company plays as similar to how it was originally intended. Easy Eights, Fire Up and WP smoke have got to stay.

2. Combine weak abilities together as a bundle keeping in line with how they are currently being bundled in other commanders.

3. No elite infantry! It’s all about the Riflemen in this commander. Hence the suggested Sergeant upgrade and Riflemen field defenses.

4. Do not make changes that require other commanders to also be adjusted.

The primary reason I do not advocate changing major parts of the doctrine, such as the Easy Eight, is because it has been a staple part of the commander from its inception and if you were to move it to a different commander then you now have to rework two commanders.

As far as I can tell, all of the USF commanders are pretty good, with just a few standing out as very good ( Heavy Cavalry ), and Rifle Company standing out as pretty bad.

So I think that a rework of Rifle Company should do these four things:

1. Leave the core features alone so the company plays as similar to how it was originally intended. Easy Eights, Fire Up and WP smoke have got to stay.

2. Combine weak abilities together as a bundle keeping in line with how they are currently being bundled in other commanders.

3. No elite infantry! It’s all about the Riflemen in this commander. Hence the suggested Sergeant upgrade and Riflemen field defenses.

4. Do not make changes that require other commanders to also be adjusted.

Literally all this commander needs is a price decrease (since I doubt the debuff is going away) for Fire Up and Flares (should be equivalent to PanzerFusilier Flares at 35 munitions). Just like that it becomes useable.

If we combined flares and fire up into one package since theyre both cp2 anyway, rifleman field defenses is the ONLY thing I would add, since it perfectly fits the theme of the commander and gives it something meaningful early game.

The primary reason I do not advocate changing major parts of the doctrine, such as the Easy Eight, is because it has been a staple part of the commander from its inception and if you were to move it to a different commander then you now have to rework two commanders.

As far as I can tell, all of the USF commanders are pretty good, with just a few standing out as very good ( Heavy Cavalry ), and Rifle Company standing out as pretty bad.

So I think that a rework of Rifle Company should do these four things:

1. Leave the core features alone so the company plays as similar to how it was originally intended. Easy Eights, Fire Up and WP smoke have got to stay.

2. Combine weak abilities together as a bundle keeping in line with how they are currently being bundled in other commanders.

3. No elite infantry! It’s all about the Riflemen in this commander. Hence the suggested Sergeant upgrade and Riflemen field defenses.

4. Do not make changes that require other commanders to also be adjusted.

I tend to agree with both of you, but I disagree on the easy eight. To me rifle company should be like German infantry doctrine, focused on infantry benefits to riflemen. I did consider adding Rangers, but adding special forces would take away from the theme.

I see your previous point on veteran units being difficult to balance. Perhaps that could be bundled with the veteran leaders in terms of allowing something like 20% faster XP gain, which would then allow another ability to be used. It would be cool if this could follow somewhat the CoH1 infantry company, with the artillery focus. Ideally I'd love to see an actual artillery piece added as the final ability.

Literally all this commander needs is a price decrease (since I doubt the debuff is going away) for Fire Up and Flares (should be equivalent to PanzerFusilier Flares at 35 munitions). Just like that it becomes useable.

If we combined flares and fire up into one package since theyre both cp2 anyway, rifleman field defenses is the ONLY thing I would add, since it perfectly fits the theme of the commander and gives it something meaningful early game.

While I would still like to see some sort of Veteran Sergeant for USF, I think combining Flares and Fire Up together and adding Riflemen Field Defenses would be a good solution too.

Why I like the idea of a Sergeant upgrade has many facets, and I cannot deny that one of those reasons is simply nostalgia for vCoH Riflemen. Lol

The other reason is to be able to boost Riflemen size to correct “half-squad” size.

What I mean by this is that squads in CoH games are purposefully about half the size of real squads. This is done for several reasons, but historically they were pretty good about consistency where each factions in game “half-squads” were exactly half of the size of the real unit. US Rifle squads were 12 men with 11 M1 Garlands and 1 BAR. So in vCoH they because a 6 man squad. The upgrade of BARs is highly inconsistent, but works gameplay wise. German squads were 10 men with 1 MP40, 7 or 8 Kar98ks and 1 MG42, so they made the German “half squad” as 5 men. Same for the British 10/2 for a 5 man “half-squad”. This worked brilliantly in vCoH where 2 Riflemen squads was the correct 12 men all with rifles, and 1 Volksgrenadier squad plus an upgraded Grenadier squad ended up with 9 men all with rifles plus an MG42.

So the proposed 6 Riflemen squad I proposed with 1 M1 Carbine and 5 M1 Garands can only upgrade to have 1 BAR. Now we have a perfect half squad that is totally balance-able, given the correct application, and also the correct “half squad” size.

It would be cool if this could follow somewhat the CoH1 infantry company, with the artillery focus. Ideally I'd love to see an actual artillery piece added as the final ability.

That's Infantry Company. Two improvements for Riflemen, three artillery abilities.

So I've been really on the fence about a 6 man rifle squad but here is what I think:

Perhaps making it an upgrade for officers. To bolster them that way it's not toooo wide spread. It could still carry the radio feller model but grant addition abilities to the officers, target abilities and off maps.
Fire up could be an officer targeted ability instead of what it is now and could lose the debuffs as consequence.
Something that increases ROF when stationary
Some thing that increases accuracy on the move
That lovley mark target that increases target size and reduces armour by 25%
Abilities cool down quicker (it's really just grenades and flares but it's something)
Things that really help rifles shine without just being a "buff rifles" kind of ability.

Im not really a fan of low micro abilities that lower skill cap, I feel like officers are underutilized and fear more durable rifles just makes them more blob friendly...

WAY too much utility/power on that Veteran Squad Leader:
-60Muni
-Weapon Slot (1/2)
+1 Model
+1 M1 Carbine
+5% RA Reduction
+10% xp
+Fire Up
+Flares

Seriously, by comparison, here's the OST Veteran Squad Leader:
-60 Muni
-Weapon Upgrades/MG42
-MedKit Ability
+1 Model
+1 G43
+15% Reduced Weapon Cooldown
+10% RA Reduction


Honestly, just copy the OST version and replace the G43 with the carbine. Keep everything else the same (this would take both weapon slots). Right now it's just a 'turbo' button for rifles to give them even more of an early game advantage.

Except that ost 5 man upgrade gives a much better weapon (g43 compared to paratrooper carbine), double the RA bonus, a firerate bonus, and still only takes one slot, meaning you can pick up lmgs or BARs or whatever that get dropped over the course of the game if it so happens. Not saying it's perfectly balanced, it's just that you basically glossed over everything good about the ost thing.

I like the idea of the whole rework, especially the riflemen upgrade. Obviously might need further tweaking and discussion, but I think it's a very solid idea. I don't think the upgrade should give them veterancy gain bonuses though, since it's good enough as is and the conscript veterancy buff exists to help late game replacement squads vet up in the late game. Giving riflemen that bonus at like 2 CP or whatever would be too much of an advantage IMO.

So I've been really on the fence about a 6 man rifle squad but here is what I think:

Perhaps making it an upgrade for officers. To bolster them that way it's not toooo wide spread. It could still carry the radio feller model but grant addition abilities to the officers, target abilities and off maps.
Fire up could be an officer targeted ability instead of what it is now and could lose the debuffs as consequence.
Something that increases ROF when stationary
Some thing that increases accuracy on the move
That lovley mark target that increases target size and reduces armour by 25%
Abilities cool down quicker (it's really just grenades and flares but it's something)
Things that really help rifles shine without just being a "buff rifles" kind of ability.

Im not really a fan of low micro abilities that lower skill cap, I feel like officers are underutilized and fear more durable rifles just makes them more blob friendly...

The intent of a Rifleman Sergeant upgrade is not to just get a 6 man squad. If you want 6 man USF squads for the sake of having a 6 man squad, you get Paratroopers. I intended the Sergeant to be a defensive buff to Riflemen that limits their raw firepower in favor of increased survivability and also provide a way to have more abilities that are already in Rifle Company be tied to an upgrade. The problem people pose with 6 man Riflemen being able to sprint straight up to a squad and mow it down with BARs is highly reduced if the 6 man squad can only get one BAR and the flare-sprint “madness” is also reduced if you must first spend munitions on the Sergeant himself. Officers with their vet 3 passive sprint would be pretty OP with a 6 man squad upgrade that has a Thompson already in it for free plus an additional BAR. So if people think 6 men with one BAR and munitions based sprinting is OP, then they will DEFINITELY think that a 6 man squad with a Thompson, a BAR and free passive sprinting at vet 3 plus smoke grenades is OP. Yeah. That’s gonna get a Lot of push back.

So.. I had a thought.

What if instead of a Veteran Sergeant, we did a Designated Marksman?

Adds a sixth man to the squad armed with a Springfield, adds a "Snipe" ability for 20 Muni that one-taps a specific enemy model at a good range, and adds the ability for the squad to hit the dirt to get a bonus to accuracy, received accuracy at the cost of losing all ability to move while active?

The rifle grenade can be adjusted. Imo it should simply not be available to a cheap spammable unit like R.E. .

Even it current state if it take both weapon slot it would be allot better balance in rifle men than RE since it would less spam able.

In addition the double rifle-grenade from fighting pits would be removed.

Yeah so let's put it on a unit that has snares, an extra man from the get-go, better RA and better vet, and a frag grenade.

That would also make it so your direct fire capabilities with infantry are kind of gimped. All around a bad solution IMO.

So.. I had a thought.

What if instead of a Veteran Sergeant, we did a Designated Marksman?

Adds a sixth man to the squad armed with a Springfield, adds a "Snipe" ability for 20 Muni that one-taps a specific enemy model at a good range, and adds the ability for the squad to hit the dirt to get a bonus to accuracy, received accuracy at the cost of losing all ability to move while active?

Riflemen are a short-medium range unit though. A sniper wouldn't fit with the squad as they'd be losing out on the advantageous aspects of garands especially since most axis infantry long range focused.