wrong https://coh2db.com/stats/#43
compare fusilier rifle to volks, they are worse
'Updated 25.05.2017'
Just install Coh2 tools already if you don't want to believe me.
Bonus edit: the stats you give still show (even more pronounced) superior accuracy, aim time, etc. |
No you said " The only stat where panzerfusiliers are worse than volks is pure per-shot damage" is cost not a stat?
Ebps wise it isnt even true. Youre paying an extra 30 mp for the squad itself. You're not paying any more for reinforcing them than volks are. (Correction edit: they are in fact 3 mp more expensive. Whoopie do)
But hey, if you want to be really specific, sure. You're going to have to wait a few extra seconds to call in your panzerfusilier squads. Fine. Doesn't change the fact that once on the field, the only inferior quality they have is 2 less damage per shot, while having superior aim time, accuracy, etc. |
And cost. Try doing your own bloody research
And I already mentioned cost. No other reason Id mention the price drop.
What is it with you people and reading? |
this shows how much u know of the game, pfulier have worse rifle than volks already, and they cost 30 mp more, and they can't get snare with shrecks
Do you even read what people post on this forum? Unit stats? The only stat where panzerfusiliers are worse than volks is pure per-shot damage, 10 damage to 12 for volks. Try doing your own bloody research. |
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Keep sturms the way they are, just reduce the AT package cost to 60. Keep it as a single shrek.
Volks already have the best accuracy of any mainline infantry in the game, and good veterancy all around. The STGs are fine and fit thematically far better than MP40s, whicg should remain doctrinal. Giving them normal grenades could be interesting, however, and then give the incendiary to the sturms. Not for free, however. No way lmao.
Increase range of the rak, remove mobile camo or lock behind vet 2 or something. Possible cost decrease. No other changes.
Obers I could see moving down to battlegroup hq, but with the mg34 still locked behind heavy panzer truck. Two trucks requirement isn't enough since everyone and their mother goes for the mechanized truck anyway and MG34 Obers are basically a hard counter to team weapons.
Panzerfusiliers should have their rifle accuracy, movement cooldown, and aim time lowered to volk standards so theyre actually worse, and then they can get a price drop. Drop the cost of their G43 upgrade a bit but remove the extra man it gives to compensate. Im tempted to say the shrek upgrade should only grant one as well. More than zooks ever could hope to be, double shreks essentially ends allied light vehicle use, particularly since they get a snare too, and two of shrek squads is enough to destroy medium armor all by themselves. |
Just wanted to throw out an idea that'd hopefully make the WC51 better to play with and against:
I'd propose removing its ability to carry a squad entirely and instead giving it the .50 cal stock at a higher price, like 260-280mp. That way it functions more as a harassment unit, providing long range DPS that USF sorely lacks in the early game, instead of being an annoying clown car wipe machine that's basically a one trick pony. IMO this wouldn't be OP because a) it's doctrinal b) it's less responsive and manueverable than the kubel and c) it's pretty much made out of wet tissue paper anyway. It'd serve a better, less cheesy, more actually useful role and IMO it'd be much more fun to play with.
No way. The 50 cal isnt that expensive and it already plays a useful role unarmed by capping like the kubel does and carrying infantry to capture points. The WC51 absolutely doesn't need another nerf and a muni to mp price change is exactly that. |
Absolutely not..2cp maybe at best. Even pathfinders imo should NOT BE 0cp..
what this game least needs is more and more powercreep with earlier and earlier elite units making mainlines even worse and riflemen are the best example since literally everyone moans about rifles "being so bad"
If paras were 1cp what would even be the point now to go for Riflemen anymore? Paras get free grenades, a demo charge, good upgrades with really good abilities and have elite stats and are 6-men. all this without extra side upgrades or fuel costs like for rifles. Rifles only get snare over paratroopers but even that is no issue considering how OP Jackson is. or the fact that paras can get, I think 3?, bazookas with better efficiency than normal zooks.
Now let's also think about the fact that you have 50. cals which can be considered Op aswell in the same commander or u can tech into LT for it. And a stuart. Now you have Elite 2x LMG paras running around at 1 cp supported by arguably the best or 2nd best LMG in the game and possibly pathfinders and if he teched into CPT no problems at the AT front. Later on it is Jacksons with thunderbolts wiping tanks
Again. What elite stats? RA 1.00 all the way to Vet 3, no special cover bonuses, no camo (Airborne Doctrine), no sight boost, no sprint - what on earth do you mean? They can get 4x Thompsons. Yes. Or you could go Cav Rifles with 2x Thompsons and 3x Grease Guns for the same effect, 2 CP earlier and 80 MP and 45 muni cheaper. You'll get a snare out of that too. As for zooks, they can get 2. That locks out any weapon upgrades, however, a subject we are already discussing locking behind tech. Same with nades possibly.
Jackson complaints are a subject for a whole nother thread, same with rifles talk, but your opponent wont be floating muni for P47s if hes been using all these seemingly OP upgrades and abilities you mention, and versus Ostheer its probably not even a cost-effective ability anymore what with the buffed Ostwind.
Also, cringe if you think the M2HB is OP. Even at the 'discount' Airborne Company gets for it with muni cost thrown it, the thing still has horrible aim time and is the only unit in the game with a .5 RA modifier on retreat instead of .4.
Pathfinders aren't OP either since the sniper rifles are useless at anything but long range and only crit on models under 40% HP. They aren't JLI. |
No, because if you don't even know the very basics about the unit - namely that its dropped in by plane and not spawned in via houses - there isn't much point discussing anything else, because it clearly shows you either have never used it or you simply don't know what you're talking about. Either way, the resulting discussion wouldn't be occurring on a credible level.
Well, I'm glad we got the whole disingenuity thing sorted out then.
For a brief moment I thought you actually wanted to have a balance discussion. |
That tells me how much you actually know about the unit, namely nothing.
Wow, epic. Good thing you didn't have to address anything else in the post or you'd really look disingenuous right now. |
Absolutely, categorically no.
People complain about the PzGrens, but having Paratroopers with Thompsons or LMGs running around at minute 5 would wreck Axis unit on the field at that point, in particular Grens would be absolutely demolished.
Second, if you want to talk about Paratroopers arriving too late and being squishy with 6 man, may I introduce you to Fallschirmjägers?
You're aware they spawn at 83% RA and get another RA buff at Vet 2, right? And all spawn with weapons the game even classifies as LMGs; essentially BAR equivalents. They even get a snare if I recall correctly, and a smoke grenade.
Schirms are a lot of things, and fit poorly into a poorly designed faction, but they're not USF Airborne Company Paratroopers bad. You can be sure of that.
They're veritable elite infantry, with the DPS, veterancy and RA to show for it. You can spawn one magically out of a building and replace veteran infantry losses with them if Obers didnt already exist non-doctrinally to do the exact same thing. With Paratroopers you'd actually be hurting yourself, since all they do is bleed.
(Edits for accuracy, not that stats will change minds) |
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