I would really argue about it.
Its still cheaper manpower-wise to get bolster and reinforce 4 squads then get 5th.
Its more muni efficient, because you don't need to upgrade whole another squad, its more pop efficient and it increases repair speeds as well.
Tommies also do not have rec dmg modifier, so each second in mid and late game without it just increases the potential to get them wiped more easily by nades or vehicles.
If anything, there is no benefit to NOT picking bolster and getting additional squad instead.
I agree and i dont think increasing the cost of bolster until its not viable (or worth it) anymore is the way to go. Giving squads one more model while not having any drawback other than the initial cost is the problem.
Making the weapon upgrade and/or the squad upgrade (recon, medic, raid) exclusive from the bolster upgrade is the better solution imo. So its either 4man double bren sections or 5man sections. Ofc you have to adjust bolster and the upgrades then (for example buffing bren performance). But atleast you can balance everything accordingly. At the moment 4man sections are good and beat both grens and volks, while 5 man are even better and stomp both grens and volks. At the same time weapon upgrades like brens or vickers are often neglected, cause 5man sections are good enough. And ofc there is the supbar vet, that makes sections scaling mediocre (i guess its cause vet0 5man sections are so strong, so the vet has to be bad). But this makes losing squads not that punishing and on the other side doesnt really reward unit perservation.
About the raid sections:
In my games they felt rather mediocre. Both the combat performance and the utility hasnt felt that different to normal sections. I dislike the loss of cover bonus and the bonus moving speed cause it promotes blobbing and a-moving. Give them better vision or make the scoped enfield worthwhile imo. But this uprade is risky. Sections dont really need the medic uprade (cheap base medic) and the pyro uprade is just nice to have but nothing more. So this raid upgrade could get problematic very fast. And therefore making the match-up with grens and volks even more one-sided. |
Although i see where this idea is coming from i think making stg doctrinal is a bad choice. Having to wait for defensive infantry till obers come out is too long.
MP40 is good, but volks will bleed hard when engaging.
An even further delayed MG34 makes it even harder for volks to stand their ground.
I would straight up remove the stg upgrade and bundle spio flamer with obers stg.
About volks:
Yeah i think they need a better recieved accuracy modifier then. At the moment they have 1 vet 0 and 0,77 vet 5 and as far as i know they get 0,10 with the mp40 upgrade. Without the stg upgrade you can give them better rec. acc. through vet, then you can remove the 0,10 from the weapon upgrade. If you nerf spio at the same time, you can give them 0,95 or 0,90 at vet 0 and get that to ~0,60-0,55 at the end. Then volks are similar to cons. Low dmg, but good survivability, in contrast to obers and grens, who are high dmg, but low(er) survivability. |
Nice to see that you agree. Any comments on a redesigned MP44 for VG?
It could work with "carbine profile" in semi auto mode and with elite Thompson profile (good close to mid DPS) (adjusted to cost and timing of coarse) in the full auto mode.
If you balance volks with stgs around midrange performance, they have to compete/ get compared to bar riflemen. And i dont think you can adjust that without powercreeping them vs soviets and maybe brits. I dont think current soviets could deal with okw if you swap volks with riflemen. And the other solution with thompson is a straight better mp40 upgrade, isnt it? But maybe i misunderstood you.
I think its easier to give them a clear close range upgrade, that gives them the opportunity to beat other squads short range, while synergising with long range obers late game. Maybe giving them a k98 upgrade through vet (5; nothing major, shouldnt beat upgraded sections ofc!), so you can decide against the mp40 upgrade and still have some decent long range dmg in the lategame (similar to old enfield upgrade).
But at the end it doesnt matter what exactly you do with volks (or penals, same story). Just try some things. Thats a mod for imo. Trying out things and testing them. And not just adding cheese tactis, that dont help factions overall.
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OKW
[...]
Early game
Imo many of the issues of OKW start with power of their starting unit. ST can push most enemy off the field and it much of the games progress depends on how this unit will perform. If the SP beat enemy mainline infatry it can snowball if the SP is caught in red cover even a little time or step in hmg arc and has to retreat the OKW might find themselves in very difficult position.
Suggestions:
Tone down starting unit:
SP could start with 2 ST 2 MP40 and have cost reduced
[...]
Volkgrenadiers
Now get Faust at Building SwS or another tech requirement and not truck setup
Other suggestions see MP40 (stock),ST44 suggestions(dual firing option) above
I agree. The first 5 minutes are really important for OKW and you have to get the most out of Spios. Thats doable vs soviets until flamer arrives, 40/60 against Usf and almost impossible vs sections and uc. On the other side allied factions (mostly soviets) have to play cautious, cause of spios powerful combat strength.
Maybe its possible to try to remove (2 or 4) mp44 from spios at the start and give them a muni/free upgrade after the first building is built. On the other side the cost could go down from 300 to something like 260. That could help the diversity of okw builds and the match-up for soviets. Maybe you have to adjust the starting manpower of okw, idk.
On the other side volks are completly worthless vs sections all game long, struggle vs riflemen and have a slight advantage over cons (atleast until 7men). The stg upgrade comes too early, does nothing after 10 mins and is completely boring. And their vet is underwhelming too (vet 4 is the most useless shit i have ever seen). The mp40 upgrade on the other side is a clear and interesting weapon upgrade. Removing stgs and making mp40 stock (maybe volks need better rec. acc) ould make okw more fun to play with and against.
Atleast we could try some things with this mod. If it doesnt work or is too good/bad, there is still the opportunity to remove it. But botching the tech tree until there is a new cheesy, competitive way to play okw (techless command p5, Tiger stall in the past and now hetzer rush) is not the way to balance okw imo.
Edit:
And about the leig. I really like smoke, but could this unit get a significant combat bonus before vet 4? Cause the only thing it gets until then is smoke range and barrage cd. maybe swap vet 2 with vet 4 or 5.
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No
GiaA said it best.
I’ll piggyback on this and say this is absolutely huge in protecting the flak HT from stuart and AEC. In my test games I also found the shrek to be very good in contributing to vehicle fights. It had a really big impact.
But isnt one Volks with faust or one mine enough to hinder stuart and aec to kill the Flak ht? Where is the advantage to give up your best combat squad, which can lay mines and sweep them, to protect it vs light vehicles? And isnt that a much higher gamble? Cause when the first shot misses the flak is a free kill? And the chance to kill the light vehicle is way higher with faust than without. Or do you defend the flak with 1 volks and 1 Spio? |
Agreed on the shrek spios change being huge.
To be honest I'd remove every other OKW change and just keep the combat package being available to an Spio after getting the sweeper. Big buff and that's all OKW needs at the moment.
Completely worthless change imo. Okw has t0 Raketen and puma in mech. One shreck wont do anything vs any light vehicle with decent micro. This change would be maybe usefull if the flamer upgrade works the same, but the shreck-upgrade wont have much impact. If double shreck Pfs arent viable, single shreck Spios wont be the game changer. |
Summer 2020: Miragefla puts the Panzer authorization change to his mod. People, including me and Borobadger, vehemently disagree after playing it that Ostwind, Hetzer and LMG Obers all arrive way too early.
November 2020: Changes make it to the preview mod.
I’m gonna help the team y playing a bunch of mod games and sending them to Jibber, but I’m posting this because I already know how this is gonna end like: Delete the schwerer change IMMEDIATELY or this is the new Grand Offensive meta for OKW.
I dont think the Schwerer change is the problem. Its more like Battlegroup is too cheap. Going mech into schwerer is fine.
Maybe add a subtech like Usf to Battlegroup? Base Building is like 15-20 fuel for medics and leig. And with another 20~30 fuel (and manpower) you unlock everything else. So going only Bg for heal and then advance to mech is viable, while going full Bg is the same as going for mech only. |
5man Grens are broken OP and LMG Grens are very good.
Yes and no. I think lmg Grens are fine but thats debatable i guess. But they are not "very good" thats for sure.
About Pgrens:
Thats what happens when you triple buff units (Pgrens got a strong vet 1 ability, better timing and better vet spread).
The first step is to fix their timing imo. Move them into T2. You have to get that building anyway for at guns and 222, so its mostly just a little timing nerf. And if thats not enough you can rebalance their vet again. But i suggest to start with adjusting the timing at first and see what Osttruppen and 5Man Gren nerf does for the balance overall.
Penals are fine except their at upgrade, cause that gets worthless pretty fast. Maybe a t4 buff like cons get is needed. |
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2. I tested it. Here are the build times.
1. Gren: 42s 1. Section: 0s
2. Gren: 66s 2. Section: 29s
3. Gren: 103s 3. Section: 70s
4. Gren: 158s 4. Section: 129s
Now we can argue how impactful the starting pio squad is, cause Gren wont outnumber sections thats for sure.
3. And? You can add whatever you want. Doesnt change that the Bolster+T2 rush is faster than the Ost T2 build. Noone on this earth is going to get weapon racks at 3 mins. Even the grenade unlock is very uncommon before bolster. |
This isn't true. Last time I checked the stats when comparing a 4man gren and 4man tommy squad, the grens had better stats with most things. Better damage, better accuracy, better reload times, rate of fire (out of cover) This is why I said, the UKF player has to get the bolster squad, or else struggle with weaker infantry. True they're better when in cover, but it's easy to counter that with things like grenades, assault inf, arty, ect
Saying they're going to lose a model is kinda a moot point, because this goes both ways and depends who was in cover first and who ran into who's line of sight.
Also idk where you're saying the UKF player is going to get 5man and LMGs at the same time. That's a 45 fuel cost, plus another 35 (or 30 don't remember) since 5man now requires platoon command post.
At this point the axis player will have enough for light vehicles, or if Ost will get a P4/Ostwind out faster.
There's also the fact that the Ost player will have the borderline OP MG2 to abuse tommies to prevent unfavorable match ups.
Lastly, by the time the UKF player gets bolster, the Ost player will have Pgrens which can stomp on tommies anyway if the Ost player has the skill.
Also disagree on scaling. Cons are weak unless you go airborne and 7man. And rifles /must/ get BARs just so they can compete late game, or else they'll get stomped on by things like obers
1. You can check here again: https://coh2.serealia.ca
2. The problem is you gonna lose models faster when you charge units and at the same time your dps is reduced. And cause grens lose long range vs sections they either have to close the distance to win or accept the outcome and stall until more units arrive. Either way they will lose the trade as long as both forces have equal amount of units.
3. Brits have to pay 35 fuel (bolster) and 30 fuel (tech) to advance to T2. Ost needs 10+20 fuel (both buildings) and 40 fuel (tech). So its 65 vs 70. And cause 70>65 my point still stands.
4.Yeah pgrens arrive quite fast atm and probably should get back in the t2 building.
5.Cons still have some utility and their vet3 is quite potent. But yeah they get into trouble vs STG Volks and Lmg Grens until vet3 (+t4). But lategame they are overall the best mainline unit in the Game.
6. Atleast Rifle have the option. Grens (except the op 5Men upgrade) and Volks are just running at-nades and lose vs everything but pios at that stage of the game. And there is nothing that dies faster against rocket arty and other explosives than Obers (RIP). I wish they would get dmg reduction like Grens and lose some of their rec acc for that. |
Relic Entertainment
