A KV-8 poses no threat to p4. So therefore it should bounce p4 shots on the rear? I don't think so
I said KV tanks, not only KV8. KV1 / KV2 are more than a threat to a Pz4.
Even those two last have high rear armor for a P4 to score pen shots.
Yeah of course a brumbarr shouldn't be exposing it's rear armor. That's the entire point. If you are showing your rear you deserve to suffer for it, regardless of what tank you are using
Do not turn upside down my arguments and put words in my mouth, i said both things, a proper played brumbar will not show a rear shot to anything but T34s being so cheap are able to dive through hell and back to get a rear shot, even more if you certainly know that will pen.
You can say a brum poses no threat to a t34, but if I'm diving my tank behind it then I'm exposing the t34 to other AT that is absolutely a threat to it. Same goes for any medium diving behind any other tank
Now you want to add another setup just to twist my wordings. Please abstain from that unless you really know what you do.
ATGs are always present in a normal skill game but you know very well that ATGs are the slowest, then brumbarrs and the fastest of them 3 is the t34, imagine taking a ATG everywhere you send your stupa just because some pesky t34, wich you cant hit nor damage is always going to get behind BECAUSE IT SCORES PEN SHOTS.
NONESENSE
ATGs support but are nowhere neccesary to enable a LATEGAME AI SPECIALIST TANK...
No, I stopped respecting him caus he called me a liar. So i really didn't give a sht after that point.
It takes that little to trigger someone? Literally, on the internet? Man I want to go back to the 90's where people knew how to stand corrected and had more self respect
PD: if your tests were wrong, you should take responsibility, otherwise you are just fine spreading fake facts and that is serious trolling
Anyway, you're an axis fan boy and you're in delusion, but I hope you have a wide view
Lol sure, wathever you say, i wrote whole posts for allied buffs and balance too but you rarely appear on those, you only care for troll posts and rants. Top quality toxcicity
I still believe some aspects of the current CoH tank fights balance is flawed, but i think i got a solution. There will be room for a lot of discussion, please keep track of constructive comments rather repetitive or troll post.
The current CoH state is mostly based on the following details:
*Axis get default premium turreted medium tanks/ Allied get sub-par mediums, at least for direct combat.
*Axis tanks cost more, but are mostly the only option, LV on axis are not as reliable as medium rush/Mediums for allied are not as reliable as light armor pressure into tank destroyers.
*TD for the same fuel cost, deny the enemy fuel investment in tanks by greater range+pen
*Axis TD are capped to fight allied mediums (and their premium doctrinal variants) / allied TD are able to fight from mediums (with snares) all the way up to heavies and superheavies.
*Rear armor values are hardly exploited, they are mostly useful in medium/medium scenarios and for flanking attacks.
*RNG involved poses a lot of difficulty for players to understand when and where to fight.
*Heavy tanks and doctrinal elites that enable players to skip a tank tier to outclass the enemy unit, sometimes as a proactive desition or maybe as a reactive one.
When talking about 1v1s and teamgames strategies can vary a lot, but the prior mentioned aspects still remain.
The whole scenario is pretty hard to balance, each stat number counts, but the game balance and the enjoyment of it pretty much depends on the availability of options to choose and the opportunity to win fights and more importantly it not depending on some lucky RNGesus hit. Not all options should lead to winning scenarios but there should be a little room for play with it. I dont mean that T70 should kill panthers but its no fun to encourage unit preservation and then realizing that they are useless against a natural evolution of the game.
Based on the forums topics, some in-game experience and hopefully some insight of the tank battle design i see the arise of the following issues.
*Between tank tiers there is little time for tanks to open breaches, fight others of the same tier or leverage the rest of the units already fielded.
*M36s are so worth their FU cost compared to shermans. (Barely 35Fu, its like a min ingame).
*Panthers dominate mediums by sheer durability,But also are able to chase rapidly and kill any other tank / TD
*T34-76 are not suited for tank combat but rather infantry combat, that role is already covered by T70. At best T34 is a lategame variation of T70.
*Cromwells have little AI power, because centaurs are ment to cover that area, but UKF is simply unable to field both at the same time.
*Sherman doctrinal variations offer options that USF does not need, the most important is already covered by stock M36.
*OKW has great early game and is the only one faction having stock Heavy tank, the KT is a sturdier and slower panther.
*Tank immobilization is critical to secure kills, but only mainline inf at close range can achieve that.
To summarize i want to suggest a couple of possible solutions, that should not demand too much time for devs to accomplish. Some might be more radical, but as a whole i imagine the game balance could be improved.
New TD Role
Heavy Tank Role
Between a Pak and a wall
M36 and the M10
Mother russia is sad about T34
Panthers tamed
For queen and country
My expectations upon the suggested ideas are:
*Reduce TD spams in teamgames and diversify tank counterplay.
*Heavy tanks balanced through utility and not because commander meta or unit costs
*More medium tank play, more room for shermans and T34s.
*A solid TD design that players can learn quickly and find useful to their games.
*A clear distinction between mediums and their performance, no more endless stat wars
*Better infantry-tank interactions, more strategic value to mines
If you reached this far, well thanks for reading and i will keep the OP updated with the thread suggestions and corrections.
Some ideas are taken from other forum users, if you found yours be free to tell me and i will add your name to it and the list of collaborators
I think comparing a Brumbarr rear armor bouncing t34 shots is pretty similar to a KV tank rear armor boucning P4 shots
Neither should be happening
A brumbarr hardly exposes his rear armor in normal combat, but t34s are able to overextend to get a rear hit and maybe a ram finish. Brumbarr poses no threat to t34. T34 are at least one or two tiers below brumbarr.
Those reasons justify the rear armor bounces.
KV on the other side is the lightest heavy tank, even when P4 have good pen, KV can outgun and kill Pz4 in 1v1. A rear armor hit is the only possible chance for a P4 to win the 1v1.
Id say there is a reason for P4 to get pen shots and no reason for t34 to do so.
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