The soldiers began to remodel their M1 carbines into automatic carbines in 1944 when they liberated the Belgian factories of the FN. After the inspection saw what the soldiers were doing with their weapons, an official M2 modernization kit was created that included automatic fire and an expanded magazine.
A similar story was with the AVT-40, automatic SVT was tested before the war and it was recognized: well this is stupid. But during the war, field workshops began to modernize their SVT in AVT and began sending reports to the factory: automatic fire is very useful in critical defense situations, send us more AVT. At first, the factory refused to produce AVT, referring to the test report of automatic fire, and then surrendered, and from 1943 until 1945, the SVT was produced only as an AVT.
Interesting. Please provide a reference. All evidence I have shows that the M1 carbine was originally designed to be a full auto weapon but the requirement was dropped prior to production in order to speed up the development of the weapon. The idea was revisited later and a kit to convert M1 Carbines to full auto was developed. The appearance of the StG44 further reinforced the need for the full auto version and the night vision equipped M3 Carbines issued to Army troops in Okinawa were also full auto from the factory.
https://www.amazon.com/U-S-Infantry-Weapons-World-War/dp/0917218671
The only reference I have that ever references a full auto “soldier done” conversion is band of brothers where Richard Winters received a full auto M1 Garand that was full auto only converted for him by a fellow easy company member. (Not in the TV show, only in the book is this referenced).
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Hey guys, this thread is for discussing any new unit ideas you think could be added to the game (CoH 2) or future games (CoH 3 or CoH Online, if that happens).
The rules are simple, just make a suggestion or present an idea and state what it is, how it could be implemented and whether it should be for a future CoH game or added to CoH 2 in a future patch.
Example 1:
M2 Carbines: The full auto version of the M1 carbine was fielded in small numbers near the end of WWII. Many were actually just upgraded M1 Carbines done by swapping out a few internal parts, which makes it hard to identify in photographs as not all converted M1 to M2 Carbines have the larger magazines, and different sights and barrel band that was later standardized.
Implementation: Add as an upgrade to Rear Echelon troops as a doctrinal upgrade that makes them able to fire in short bursts and change the volley fire ability to a panic Fire ability. Panic fire has all of the men empty the magazine in a long full auto burst that has low accuracy but instantly suppresses the unit being targeted but then also triggers a reload of all the Carbines in the squad making it only good at stopping a charging enemy squad and not good at attacking an enemy position. No new models would be needed to add and the DPS of the M2 Carbines could be modeled after Sturm Pioneer StGs. It would have to be an expensive upgrade, probably around 90 munition and takes up all weapon slots.
Example 2:
M3 Lee/Grant Tank: This tank saw a lot of service with the British forces through lend lease in the North African campaign. For its time, it had strong armor, lots of firepower with its 75mm and 37mm cannons and was mechanically reliable. It’s downside was a very high profile that made it easy to spot and hard to hide and it’s powerful 75mm gun was mounted in the hull, kind of like a Stug.
Implementation: If CoH3 is set in Italy or North Africa it would be awesome to see M3 tanks as a doctrinal “heavy” or “assault” tank for the British. While it was only a medium tank, it had very good armor compared to other tanks in 1941-1942 and matched up well compared to the early Panzer IIIs and Panzer IVs in Africa at the time.
Example 3:
Luftwaffe Ground Troops: Luftwaffe support personnel like mechanics and supply troops who no longer had airplanes to support due to losses were often put into infantry units to support other ground forces.
Implementation: Add into a future doctrine or a doctrinal rework for Ostheer or OKW. Use the unit model of the Ostheer team weapon members from the PaK43 and Lefh howitzer. Armament would be Kar98ks and be a 5 or 6 man squad. It could be used to basically give OKW Ostruppen or to give Ostheer a unit kind of like Volksgrenadiers but can also repair, build sandbags, build Flak emplacements and lay barbed wire. Upgrades could be an LMG maybe an MG34 or MG42 or maybe two or three MP40s to provide a mixed weapon unit that can successfully defend a position, but is not very strong in the attack. OKW version could simply be identical to Ostruppen and added to the Luftwaffe doctrine, except have repair abilities. Ostheer version could be identical to Volksgrenadiers but no StG upgrade, no pamzerfaust but have a repair ability and be able to construct Flak emplacements. There’s a lot of ways this unit could work. Lol
Good luck, have fun and keep it clean and friendly. No need to talk about balance or this vs that op/up or broken. This is just for talking about ideas and having fun! |
Because of deflection damage as mentioned and the Brummbar is all about raw power given it lacks a turret with less utility abilities like the smoke. Its gun is supposed to be better than the 105mm in most aspects.
Except freedom.
The Brunmbar has only 50% as much Freedom as a 105mm Sherman.
However this does put its Freedom at about the same as a T34/76 and about 75% higher than Ostruppen. |
And the problem was the ST44 volks and not riflemen.
It all started with increasing the power level of Penal and VGs. Then instead of toning down these 2 units to the power level of these 2 units the majority of units received DPS/RA buffs.
Now the power level of infantry is so high that support weapon a build allot less and most games have the snowball effect.
Imo it high time that units start receiving nerfs instead of buffs.
Inversely you could buff the support weapons. Lol
I agree with you that the “relative power” of things need to be equalized. The easiest way is probably to nerf a few units rather than buffing a whole lot of units, but the end result would be the same.
10 vs 20. 10 is too weak so buff it by ten then you have 20 vs 20.
10 vs 20. 20 is too strong so nerf it by 10 then you have 10 vs 10.
Of course it’s not that simple though. |
Asking officers and tech buffs in a riflemen OP thread... the ultimate offtopic.
I wouldn’t call it a buff, more of a reorganization.
As for the flat “are Riflemen op?” question, no I don’t think they are “op!!”, but they are very good at close range right now.
Old Riflemen were good but matched up poorly to Volks due to the cost disparity. 280/28 vs 250/25. With equal munitions investment of nothing or 60 (single BAR Riflemen vs StG Volks or vanilla vs vanilla) Volks would win at least half of the time. This would be fine if it weren’t for the cost disparity and speed at which Volks could hit the field. With the cost and timing adjustments to Volksgrenadiers combined with the adjustment to Riflemen we now see Riflemen overperforming against Volksgrenadiers.
A return to old Riflemen stats would be fine if it were combined with a slight reduction to cost would make the Volk vs Riflemen matchup more even, but also less interesting (270/27 Riflemen vs 260/25 Volks). This is a step towards homogenization, which is easy to balance but also less interesting.
Another option would be to give Volks a cost break again (back to 250/25), which leads to a very strong OKW opening but is countered by the more powerful Riflemen. How this Volks cost cut would impact Soviet and British early game I don’t know. Perhaps Soviets would be fine, but the revised Tommies might not fare as well. |
what is the point of this thread
+10!
XD |
That's all true, what I believe would help is the cost and time shift of USF teching:
LT & CPT: build time from 1m10s -> 30s, cost from 200M 35F -> 280M 30F
Vehicle unlock: build time from 20s -> 1m, cost from 50M 20F -> 0M 25F
This will help maintain current vehicle timing for USF. Currently Rifle squad builds in ~27s and LT or CPT build for 1m10s, this is a huge downtime on infantry so everyone builds the 3rd group of Riflemen because one can't allow him/herself to fight for the first 3 minutes with just 2xRifles and 1xRE. Also the HMG and AT gun are essential in most games so both officers are required which leaves us with RE, 3xRifles, LT and CPT (+Major later on).
Changing timing and cost would allow fitting 1 of the officers instead of 1 Rifle squad in the early game. USF player would have less squads overall (due to increased MP requirements), but LT or CPT would arrive earlier and these squads are marginally stronger than an average Riflemen squad due to having 1 non-transferable Thompson, so power level should more or less stay the same. Timing of the light vehicles would be unchanged. This would also leave some space in USF roster for the doctrinal infantry.
What do you think?
Also new pak howie is a lotto-cannon.
I mostly like this, but it has a problem and that’s USF snares.
Any build that reduces the number of Riflemen reduces the number of AT Riflegrenades possible on the field. Reducing the number of Riflemen in a build and replacing them with officers as you suggest does reduce the total number of infantry on the field, but you still end up with 4 squads of “Riflemen/substitutes” but only 2 of which can snare, 3 can throw grenades and 2 can use smoke grenades. If we go down the path of keeping officers mandatory then they need to be literally just copies of Riflemen with maybe one extra ability but still retaining ALL Riflemen abilities and veterancy.
The other option would be to make them very very different from Riflemen and make them non mandatory so it’s still worth getting them but you’re not forced to.
I prefer the second way, because it also helps builds that include call in infantry like Paratroopers, Rangers, Pathfinders and Assault Engineers. This allows your build to still have a pretty standard 4-5 infantry squads but 2-3 are Riflemen and 2 are your call ins. If you have mandatory officers then to have this same composition you’d have to have 1 Rifleman, 1 LT, 1 Captain and your 2 call in squads. This is fine if your officers are just Riflemen clones with maybe an extra ability, but if you don’t have a snare on them then you’re only going to have one squad that can snare. This is especially important because USF only has the AT Riflegrenade and Cavalry Riflemen Sticky Satchelcharge as it’s only snares.
So if we can’t get rid of officers as a mandatory unit, then can we make them identical to a rifleman squad instead? Maybe even get rid of the Thompson and give them an M1 Carbine instead that has Paratrooper Carbine stats. That would be more rifle squad like and more correct historically too. |
I'd rather they removed the free officers (you can still buy them separately) and reduced/removed the side teching instead. Half the time the LT and Cpt make your army feel bloated with units that don't really contribute that much in the grand scheme.
Major is the only officer I use regularly and rebuild instantly when they die.
Or make it so that you can upgrade a rifle squad with a LT/Cpt for a vet bonus etc. So you have a more valuable unit rather than a forcing a blob on the player.
It’s not really that Officers aren’t just as good as Riflemen, it’s that you probably already have three Riflemen in your starting build which makes getting more than one officer one too many and definitely makes getting any special call in infantry too many infantry unless you lose a squad or two (never a good thing).
Plus no one likes to play against a blob either. Especially not a blob that can upgrade with BARs that can de-crew an HMG from the front.
Diverse units are locked behind Officer tech, so you’re forced to start with Riflemen and then also get Officers on top of that. This doesn’t force you to blob them all together, but it does force you to have a lot of infantry squads and that can lead to blobbing very easily and gets even more likely the more squads you have. This makes USF probably the most likely to end up with a blob if you have a composition of 1 RE, 3 Riflemen, Lieutenant, Captain and Major. Throw in a squad of Rangers or Paratroopers and a tank and you’re almost at Pop Cap and all you have is basic infantry squads and a tank. That’s just not good faction design for a game that’s supposed to be about integrating team weapons and combined arms play. |
lets resume:
- 6(7) models
- 240mp
- t0
- sprint
- merge
- sandbags
- upgradeable with flame nades and at nades
- now with ppsh nondoc (pgrens dps)
yeah..why not...lol
it is like give all advantages without any disadvantages to one unit.
u can have cheap price, good dps, good survive/ abiltys
choose two. NOT THREE.
Unless you’re OKW (Volks, PanzerFussiliers), USF (Riflemen) or UKF (Infantry Sections).
Not picking on factions or those who play them, but my point is that all factions will always pick the best choice available to them unless there are multiple good choices.
Conscripts are just not good enough right now to ever pick them over Penals even with the 7 man upgrade or doctrinal upgrades.
Adjusting the 7 man upgrade (nerfing it) and then allowing it to work with a doctrinal upgrade (buffing it) would give Soviet players a choice of two viable infantry options when combined with the right doctrine. |
This was considered once and declined. Sturmpioneers are already charged with assaulting (StG, Concussion Grenade), fortifying (Pioneer), repairing (Pioneer), and anti-tank (Panzerschreck). Being made anti-cover / anti-building would mean this one unit occupies 5 roles in OKW.
So that’s kinda the point of the faction.
Let me explain, the OKW faction is supposed to represent extreme late war Germany (winter of 1944 and on).
During this time period, more than ever before, Germany was faced with a military that was becoming more and more polarized between the two ends of the spectrum of experience and training as well as equipment. On one end you have new units being rushed to the fight with almost no training due to necessity and often equipped poorly with just basic rifles and panzerfaust if you were lucky. On the other end you also have those units that had fought and gained experience over years and years of hard fighting on all fronts and some very advanced weapons as well, but only in small numbers.
Commanders of these forces had forces that had the experience and training and equipment to do any mission, and the manpower to back it up with the fresh troops. Unfortunately for them all of the experience, training and skill was all in the same place, the veterans. The new troops may have been ready and willing, but they didn’t have the training or skill to use the advanced weapons, that are in short supply anyways. So you do the obvious thing. You give the best weapons and hardest and most complicated missions to the veterans because you can’t rely on the new guys yet and are you really going to trust your best equipment to your worst troops?
Back to the game, we see this as the Sturmpioneers as the veterans who are over worked with repairing, fighting, anti building work and anti tank work. They’re expensive to show their relative rarity and are over taxed because they represent some of the overtaxed and overworked veterans. This can also apply to many other OKW units, but Volks vs Sturms is the easiest and best example.
Putting even more roles on Sturmpioneers is good for the factions theme and may actually be good for forcing diverse build orders instead of just Volk spam. If Volks can’t counter cover then they need to be backed up by Sturmpioneers. You can still maneuver and fight from cover defensively with Volks against some enemies but you’ll need your Sturms if you want to assault. (Hence the name “Sturm” pioneers.) The problem of Volks losing to Riflemen is also partially solved by just using less Volks and getting more Sturms. Say instead of going Sturms into four Volks try going for only two or three squads of Volks plus another squad of Sturms. Now that you’ve got two squads of Sturms maybe you can afford to put a Shreck on one of them instead of a sweeper. OKW is a faction that has the most options and can do it all, if you can afford it. Cost is your limiting factor for them even more than other factions. Maybe this is a design flaw in the faction as a whole, so I guess if you want a more typical German faction you can always just play Wehrmacht/Ostheer.
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