Profile of NorthFireZ

Keep in mind I'm a lvl 17 brit main and lvl 16 in OKW. I'm trying to be objective as possible here.

Currently the most popular opening for brits in the Winter Preview atm is Lend Lease Assault Section opening.

BO is as followed: (spawning Tommy), UC/VIckers, Assault Section, Assault Section, vickers/uc, T2/ medics, Assault Officer, AEC.

The problem: Thompson upgrade and Officer comes too early for a faction that has generally a decent mid game with the AEC dominating LV play.

My suggestion: Lock Thompson upgrade after T2 and Lock Assault officer after eithe AEC of Bofors unlock upgrade.

In practice this is an extremely oppresive build order vs okw. In the Past Soviet T1 was a must have vs OKW because of the Clown Car being generally unchallenged for the first couple minutes of the game. In the hands of a professional it is very clear how oppresive it really was to play against. The reworking of PanzerFussis relaly helped combat early LV play like that. Some weaknesses of the Soviet T1 was that it lacked the team weapon tools such as a proper AT gun and a Machinegun.

Lend Lease opening has none of those issues.

Generally OKW relies on its superior manpower to wrestle control of british cutoffs in the beginning of the game. Shown in my own testing and also Tightrope's videoes. Assault Sections can confortabily walk up to Volks Grenadiers and win. This ofc flips the dynamic on its head but Assault sections don't come at any additional cost for their firepower. In fact they are 280mp (the original cost of Sections) Brits MP values and income in the early game hasn't been adjusted at all even after sections got dropped to 270mp alpha price. Meaning opening with Assault sections equals bussiness as usual. Not only that, the UC is generally a vehicle that OKW has a hard time dealing with in the first place requiring the Panzer Fusis to be selected. Panzer Fusis lose to Assault sections hard. Panzer Fusis don't gain any RA until vet 3 and thus suffer a lot from rapid fire close range squads that can shred their lackluster starting RA. And what's worse? The brits actually has a decent MG at T1 and one of the best AT guns in the game.

It's not all doom and gloom ofc but it's very oppresive to fight against. In fact comes Tier two with the assault officer it becomes even more oppresive. Assault Officer comes earlier than Panzergrens Assault Officer loses 1-2 models on average charging on Volks. Assault Officer also has a version of on me that works differently from the Captain On me ability. The USF Captain on me usually forces the targeted friendly squad to sprint rapidly towards the captain. The Ass Officer on me doesn't seem to do that probably cause it'll pull in cover Sections out and no one would want to do that.

Without needing to buy Bolster or weapon racks for firepower upgrades (since Assault sections spawn 5 man and has Thompson upgrades) Brits now have the cheapest LV > into Medium route costing only

Brits fuel cost T2 30 fuel > AEC unlock 15 Fuel > AEC 60 fuel > T3 115 fuel > cromwell 110 fuel = 330 fuel total.

Okw fuel cost Truck 15> Mechanized 45 fuel > Luchs 60 fuel > Truck 15> T4 120> P4 140 = 395 fuel total

I'm not saying these numbers are definitive representation of the all balance of all time but it's worth taking a look at.

Again, not saying this is representative of balance in the winter patch in general but it is rather a case study into a very specifc matchup that I think will be quite one sided.

Assault sections are stronger than their current lend lease format because of timing and no requirements on bolster. It'll be very interesting to see where we end up with a unit that can hold its own vs other cqc squads in the brits roster that isn't limited to one like the assault officer.

There's also great synergy in this build with the buildable T1 medics that can not only heal Assault sections early to reduce their 1 RA bleed but also back cap some points. My thoughts on the medics can be found here https://www.coh2.org/topic/103593/winter-balance-1-2020-feedback-ukf/post/804404 but mostly they are powerful yet buggy.

I want to make brits great again but I doubt giving them an oppresive early game of CQC + long range LV and 11 minute cromwell timings is the way to go.

Is there a possibility to change the Medics from a buildable unit to a in base medic upgrade avabilble at T2?

The facts of the matter is that the USF and UKF medic squads can be very effective at healing but are still so buggy. This is from Tightrope's showcase and my own expereinces.

My anaylysis is that 180mp is too cheap of healing option and in no way Brits should have this weridly cheap squad that can also cap. On the other hand it's also really buggy and therefore inconsistent. As a brit main I want a more consitent healing. As a Axist player I also want brits to not have such cheap healing since Brits tend to bleed very little with a UC opening.

My suggestion. Instead of having HQ glider be upgradeable with FRP and Medics at the same time (making it way too cost effective) Make it 450 Manpower to call in with one squad of Commandos on spawn and upgradable FRP only. Airlanding Medics will remain buildable.

Upgradable base medicts will be a T2 option in base for 200Mp 50Munis

This way, Brits get reliable healing, HQ glider won't be over powered, and Brits also don't get a healing/capping squad in the beginning.

*note cost is up for debate but focus the general idea of moving around medic placements.

Edit: spelling

That name.

Anyways I would say Lightning war is a much better doctrine since it's well rounded.

However, if you manage to get the Tiger Ace with Panzer tactician that combo is practically unfair to fight against.

You can always keep both on your commander line and choose between the two when the situation demand it.

Uhhhh no, they're underutilized because of munitions. You need 60 muni on a Gren squad to bring it up to Pgren level, which starves you for munitions which you need for rifle grenades, fausts, med bunker and teller mines.



Yep, Grens have more investment costs associated with them. Which I covered in the second part of my post. Fundamentally Ass Grens into Panzer Grens requires less munition usage which opens up other tatical opportuinities such as Tellers, Meics, Shreks, Nades, Etc. Ass Grens into Panzer Grens also has the benefit of allowing skipped tiers and etc. All those reasons make Ass Grens and Panzer Grens much more viable than a standard Gren start from a lower level even up until rank 160ish. I'm not saying low levels are what we should balance this game around, this is just something I've observed.

There is no issue of Assgren and Panzergrenadier timings. Grenadiers are just becoming a bit more cost efficient which is good since everything around them is so much stronger with buffed Sections, buffed Riflemen and 7man cons.

As I also explained in my theory section, Grens are most likely becoming more cost efficent because of sections and also in my first paragph: "Buffing Rifleman". So yes Grens powercreeping up is a result of those things. Although I also believe grens are better model to model wise than most mainlines. Another point is that OST never had a problem with manpower but rather munitions like the both of us pointed out. Issue of timing depends on person to person but OST has generally better timing of stuff than other factions even if their unit performance might not be as good. For example Mg42 is the first MG of the game, 222 and flamer halftrack are the first true LV of the game, P4 timing has always been solid.

They did take the 20% armour bonus into account. The Brummbar is a heavy assault gun with bad mobility and bad range. It finally has actual armour to do its job, so hopefully it's viable again.

This is exactly the reason TD pen amounts won't be coming down. It's because the direction the game is going is more armor requiring more pen for reliable damage. IMO viability of the Brumbar is bad is because of the profiliation of tigers in doctrines and the heavy tank meta of last patch. Tiger can do what Brumbar does and more.

Brummbar was dead and 15 fuel faster T4 isn't that dramatic. A strawman argument with the KT comparison doesn't convince anyone.

Nope, not a strawman because that's exactly what happened to Heavy tanks last patch. Cp requirement down, Performance up. I compared the Brumbar with the KT because both are kind of noob traps in their current iteration. Oh and 15 fuel faster is pretty dramatic, any fuel decrease leads to better timing, requiring less fuel control, etc.

Or all heavy tanks could be nerfed to a balanced power level. Ostheer T4 is a specialist tier, with the Brummbar being an AI assault specialist, the Panther a heavy AT specialist and the Panzerwerfer an anti-weapons teams specialist. The Tiger is a heavy generalist and if it overshadows the entire specialist tier that's because it's overtuned as with all heavies and needs to be nerfed.

Well different ideas are welcomed but it seems as if you're putting my idea down and raising your idea as the superior opinion. I would like to play around with T4 as well but it's just not viable even with this case because the simply haven't eliminated opportunity cost from getting the Tiger vs getting T4. There's still a manpower cost associated with getting the T4 building over the TIger making the very first Brumbar cost almost as much to get in terms of manpower as the tiger which is absolute bs.

My suggest will attempt to eliminate that opportunity cost: you pay more in the end for getting the Tiger but absolutely the same for T4. All you have to do is to add the manpower cost associated with the T4 building to the Battle Phase upgrade.

Any official confirmation or is this just a bug speculation thread ?

Elite tag got removed asfik

Good change imo.