Wait so you'd take combat nerfs over moving the passive healing? It's also worth pointing out that sturms do have the crates (albeit too expensive for constant use) and setting up a medhq too isn't that expensive and won't delay your game that much. I always backtech it for the healing and sometimes the frp when I go luchs. And in the long run, backteching puts you that much closer to a kt too.
Of course, passive healing was meant so despute getting a weaker start, mechanized builds were viable because of passive healing out of combat.
It doesn't matter if you want to backtech or not, no faction is forced through a specific teching part (full of useless and trashy units) to unlock mere healing, which, like kurfurst said, happens to be the most expensive and also the less mobile.
That's really a wrong approach, rather than saying "here you have less cooldown/reload/x bonus, you gotta rely more on combined arms as volks are merely a filler now" it's saying "ok we can't nerf the crap out of luchs because is balanced as ai only vehicle, we can't nerf volks because btg hq is a meme, so we put a constant bleed over mechanized builds you can't do anything about it"
With proper crap halftrack buffs, an mg that isn't a meme (somwhat more expensive for sure, yet able to deal with green covered squads as it doesn't shoot rubber, BECAUSE DPS MATTERS) and decent sturm (which implies a little more buffs than simply being able to benefit from his veterancy, like Changing that poor nonsense 0.87 RA to something more fit for combat for an higher base cost) I would definetly get nerfed volks, even by removing stg upgrade and simply reducing the reinforce cost and initial price to something more fit. |
Piking the one thing cons are good and than compare them to Obers. Wow this post. Can you now compare the DPS? This would also be interesting.
I missed the point when they changed cons cost tp match obersoldaten...and when mg34 stopped being a paid upgrade  |
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It's ok nerfing volks, but I really do think there must be another way other than delaying the passive healing...
The passive healing was meant to give mechanized builds some kind of decent form of healing that isn't a constant muni bleed, since okw healing is the only healing tied to a specific tier.
What about removing sight bonus, or reducing cooldownd bonus ? |
Dirty cheap ? Conscripts cost is the same as Grenadier cost.
Volksgrenadiers cost only 10 mp more (are ~5% more expensive).
Do you really find soviet infantry dirty cheap ?
Of course it is, what infantry can be reinforced for 20 mp ?
But of course, pick one time paid cost...makes sense ^~^
@ZombieFrancis +1 exactly |
What about Soviet Infantry that usually have slots to spare?
You trade potential of double upgrade that requires more cost for a safe upgrade that is good at all ranges and can never be lost unless the entire squad is wiped out.
Assymetrical Balance.
Bar and brens ARE good at all ranges.
Hell, stg at long rangeis barely different from kar..bar has 5 dps points...
Soviet infantry is dirty cheap, 20 mp to reinforce a 6 men squad, and is getting a buff...give them dropped mg34 and you have got the freaking t1000 squad. |
They also can never drop and lose their STGs.
That no allied player will ever pick, as they are actually subpar, and amount to a bar/bren like dps increase only if 2 of th would be picked, which means 2 slots for a 60 muni worth upgrade, when they would rather get double bar, equivalent of 4 stg.. |
For 40 fuel and 250mp as a soviet player you can unlock a snare and molitov for cons, for 40 fuel (im sorry i dont recall the MP for the okw teching) as okw you can unlock your better (but more expensive) version of the molitov, a faust, a soft retreat point, 4 new units (for a total of 7 units to chose from, including indirect fire, an MG, AT and recon units) and a weapon upgrade for volks if thats a factored in cost someone is getting royally screwed...
40 fuel could make it a good opportunity buy, i would embrace a trial of that at the very least, i just feel that in the few times i HAVE built one its hit and miss for small arms, its going to push off anything without AT ANYWAYS i feel like having to top its health up all the time just makes it more unattractive and besides if the m5 can be bulletproof and fotm i dont see why the flak trak would be broken when requiring to be stationary (even as an upgrade like the m20)
Being able to ambush from friendly territory, garrison and retreat are all fantastic advantages for an AT gun that costs as little as it does, being able to creep into enemy territory and hunt vulnerable targets (katys and ambulances) only to then retreat is extremely powerful, much more so than its price point should allow. Plus its just cheesy and lame, particularly cancerous in team games. If for some reason the 270mp unit feels underwhelming losing its Jaeger role id be open to a counter buff, but ultimately being able to COH1 sniper but with OHK vehicles is a bad mechanic
Of course, if you take everything into a vacuum...
Okw: 1400mp 270 fuel
1st truck: 100mp 15 fuel
2nd truck: 100mp 15 fuel
3rd truck: 100mp 15 fuel
Tier 1: 200mp 25 fuel
Tier 2: 200mp 50 fuel
Tier 3: 200mp 120 fuel
Medical upgrade: 100mp 15 fuel
FRP upgrade: 300mp
Repair station: 100mp 15 fuel
Soviets: 1300mp 245fuel
Medical hq: 250mp
Molotov: 125mp 15fuel
At grenades:125mp 25fuel
Tier 1:160mp 10fuel
Tier 2:160mp 20fuel
Tier 3:240mp 85fuel
Tier 4:240mp 90fuel
Buff could be both hp and fuel cost.
Being 2 shotted by at gun is terrible for something not mobile like that.
Alternatives could be buff cost (reduce of 10) and give it an hull down ability that make it mune to atg/tanks (with a building like hp pool) fire but decrewable and recrewable by the enemy.
Make it 180degrees arc but longer range than normal flak and more vision according to the scaling and it will surely become a useful tool.
It's irrelevant, that goddam thing can't hit for shit and dies frontally to tanks at mid range...after the crew nerf, it will die frontally to unfantry nontheless, in seconds..
Every unit has an ability, being able to spot for itself, target buildings, snare vehicles and use shells that increase atg dps to highest levels compared to any at source are all powerful abilities, and all those atg got decent range and frontal protection.. |
I wouldnt mind seeing the lava nade move to sturms (maybe as a vet 1?, maybe a COST reduction at vet 1?) As aaide from the first engagment or 2 they really lose their "elite sturm status" in favour of "lets patch that tank up in 6 seconds flat" mode and i think flame nade is TOO accesable on volks (yes cons have one, but they pay a bit extra for that and besides, asymmetric balance or something like that)
T1 i think could be addressed by making the flak trak a smaller target size and/or immune to small arms. Its a great, fun unit but its already got enough drawbacks (the tech, requires deployment, low health) that i dont think it needs to be counterable by rifle fire. It needs to offer an attractive alternative to the luchs i think (or be attractive at ALL i guess) vs just nerfing the luchs, whom as light tanks go i THINK is balanced.
But aside from do it all volks and creeping death raks (them i think should only be able to camo in friendly territory) okw is MOSTLY fine. Tweaking those aould offer a better view of what IS strong/weak instead of JUST volks all the god damned time
Cons don't pay any extra for molotov..it's all factored into a tree which cost as much fuel as okw tree.
I would just cut 15 fuel from the price
It's 55 fuel, way too much for the null scaling it has.
40 fuel is honest considering small arms fire weaknesses and that any faction gets atg still much before.
If the "creeping rack" gets green shield and on par accuracy/ range i'm ok |
Hi Jagd. I think some of your points that are up to debate.
For example you say that Sturms cannot beat a riflemen squad, this is just not true. If sturms have closed the gap or are at close range its an instant retreat or lose your riflemen squad. Honestly it all comes down to "Did you pick off a sturm model on approach?" To see who wins. Thing is Sturms got pretty crazy received accuracy.
Second off, Riflemen only get AT nades WHEN they vet up. That would imply they are winning. Pushing brits/USf early game out of cover for a while isn't too uncommon.
Third did you see what factions were picked AGAINST OkW? Soviets were picked a lot, and lend lease was picked a lot. DSHKAs would cause a damn nightmare for okw and penals + M4 scout car can actually beat the crap out of OKW early game. So the way to beat OKW is to use even more busted shit? Brits can also go somewhat toe to toe with OKW early game.
Lastly by unlocking your first truck you get a weapon rack, and grenades, so you save 40 fuel and 300 MP by teching up.
A riflemen squad /=/ 2 riflemen squads
Panzergrenadiers, even if 2 enemy squads have been blobbed, can deal high damage before retreating if at point blank, sturm is weaker, and has no scaling, patch will probably fix this.
Mainline vet fast, they will have rifle at nade before min 5-6 max.
It's still cheese, it's not ok to consider it a balance point.
By the same logic we should give any ostheer vehicle more hqp because of pershing double shoot abuse for example.
Yet factional showdown with banned doctrines saw no duska, and soviets still dominated, mainly because scount car and penal terminator..
Additionally doctrines are pretty much part of an army, this whole DBP is focusing on balancing doctrinal units, pfus and heavy TD..if soviets are op with some doctrines soviets ARE OP.
No okw don't save anything, coviniently forgetting that okw frp is 300 mp, not free ? That okw medics (far worse than ambulance) cost 5 fuel more ?
That okw pays for trucks, three of them, for a total of 45 additional fuel ?
Summing up everything, okw teching is just as expensive as usf (with the disadvantage of destructable hq's).
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Pani retreat is not a luxury. If you cannot retreat your squad after first salvo has landed you suckling. Period.
Or according to your opinions are off map artillery strikes are OP because retreating once you see flares is a luxury.
Tis games is about micro and fast reactions as well as a good macro. If you cannot manage your squads you deserve to lose. Even a bundle grenade would wipe your squads then 
Stuka is different because it has high alpha damage so if you do not predict its direction well on certain the place is narrow or your team weapons are slow, the rip for them.
On the other hand you have plenty of time to move team weapons from katty, because unless you are unlucky it will not wipe them in a first salvo.
And about the balance team. Tell me dear fanboys how you can cry so much about the least important thing of a mobile artillery - its Healthbar. It is still the same squad wipe machine, just does more easily to tank pushes.
Also you have new buffed rakketten that won't collide with terrain so the RNG won't fuck with you if you place you our defences properly
Panic retreat (spam T button) /=/ soft retreat
Stop finding BS arguments..NOBODY instaretreat from arty, it isn't as flawless as you make it look like, a retreating squad leave the front for a lot of time.
"Even a bundle grenade would wipe your squads then"
LOL so you retreat to base everytime the guythrow a nade..jeez nice play.
"It is still the same squad wipe machine"
It isn't, it has been hardnerfed in his damage against weapon team...
"how you can cry so much about the least important thing of a mobile artillery - its Healthbar"
Yeah it's not like calliOP is OP because of being IMMUNE to tank rushes...with these 640 hitpoints..
But hey if nothing would change just scrap the idea...at this point
It is getting tiresome, I proved you that any arty, even to get the best out of it, can fire far at longer range than stuka can, thus saying that all should have low durability is wrong because calliope and katyusha can fire at a much safer range.
Now your argument shifted to "meh it's just the healthbar" which implies that the change itself has no considerable effect on the unit...this is litterally puddingposting... |
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