I'm not sure what to do. Do i go the fun way, and really pick the commanders that are bad. Or do i go the smart way, and pick the commanders that have a lot of abilities that could use some rework bcs they are freaking op, or bad.
What are you guys doing?
As per Mr. Smith's suggestion in the main DBP thread, I voted on commanders that were just below viable. The kind of commanders that are pretty good, but could use that little extra to put them over as a top level commander. Given the fact that its only two commanders per faction and that some commanders are honestly unsalvagable, I also think this is the best way to choose.
For perspective, I chose: USF Airborne, SOV Guard Rifles, UKF Tactical Support (had some interesting abilities), OKW Luftwaffe Ground Forces, and Jaeger Infantry (couldnt think of a good one to revamp)
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While I'm conflicted on some of the 1.0 changes, I think I really like basically all of the 1.1 changes. With the panther being far more accessible, i can see the 1.0 panther changes being easier to stomache. That said, maybe one thing is to keep sturmpioneers repair speed at a similar cost efficiency to the other factions? (roughly 200 manpower for 1.6 repair speed, so since sturmpios are 300 manpower then 2.4 repair speed?) |
Why should be agree with illogical panther changes just because rest of patch is still unknown ?
Or else if those changes, which are still not present, will change panther prformance then it is a gross failure from whole dev team. Leaking changes by one by one about a single unit is the worst outcome they (you) may chose. It leaves community asking and unsure.
I think he's saying something more along the lines of "theres more to come," with what exactly the future changes are being dependent on community feedback. |
The proper way to micro the Panther is to activate Combat Blitz and make sure you keep moving. It will never miss that way.
I'm not being sarcastic here. I'm actually serious. OKW Panther is 30% more accurate when moving than when it's not moving. That's on top of SU-85+ baseline level accuracy.
Similar such magick feats also occur with all OKW vehicles that have Combat Blitz, except for the Ostwind.
The accuracy nerfs on the Panther mainly aim to address the ridiculouslness of that issue.
I know this is strawmanning to some extent, but what youre saying is that because blitz is overpowered (SERIOUSLY overpowered, at that), the best way is to nerf the vehicle that has it instead of just nerfing the blitz itself? If so, thats an extremely worrying way of viewing balance.
Nerfing (what is in my opinion) a mediocre tank and justifying it by saying that its okay because it has an overpowered ability just makes the vehicle more reliant on said ability and makes the unit + ability far more unhealthy and more gimmicky (think something like airlanding officer + charge for what i mean by gimmicky).
If blitz is overpowered, nerf blitz. If the panther itself is not overpowered, do not nerf the panther. If the panther + blitz is overpowered, nerf whichever part of that equation is the direct cause of this overperformance. |
Guys focus more on QoL changes and both on panther vet2 decrease. There are many great changes naming:
-USF officers no longer cost arm and leg to reinforce
-demos no longer deal double damage when detonated by another explosion
-allied AT guns no longer move like slowpoke through cover
- now you can attack dushka and USF hmg with attack move command
- bofors is no longer abusable, unit must stay in in order to perform whole suppressive barrage
- Toggle fire options now work properly
- Lieutenant + Riflemen combo now can throw names even if you have selected both of these squads
- ...
But thats fine. The community is giving feedback on changes that they disagree with, and letting the great QOL changes be. The community will continue to discuss the panther changes until they are either altered or until the community is convinced the changes are good and have proper reasoning, which is how it should work. |
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To attempt to bring the discussion back on track: To the OP of this thread, the main explanation that people have for the fuel discrepancy between the t70 and the luchs (or between any 2 vehicles in any two factions) is that theyre two fairly different vehicles, operating in two different factions, facing two different sets of units. This means that comparing the two on any single level leads to extremely skewed results. Coh2 is actually really complicated with an absurd amount of factors to consider, so only using one factor (or a few of them) doesnt give nearly enough context for why things are the way they are. |
T-70 has low ROF?? seriously? with 2.43 reload is one of the faster ballistic guns with AOE.
All guns that uses AOE as the main source of damage have low Accuracy.
PLS learn the difference between weapons that use hits (accuracy) to do damage and weapons that use AOE to do damage, before continuing this.
If in your opinion T-70 does not enough damage to infantry pls explain why so.
Because: (insert made up reason that doesnt reflect the actual way the game is and works)
Seriously though, replying to trolls with actual arguments is a waste of any effort that you could instead be using towards an actual meaningful discussion on the actual purpose of this thread. |
The one that died to everything and missed like crazy?
oh yeah, I remember losing countless games because that piece of shit underperformed so badly...
you had to be really bad to get rekt by old t70
To anyone reading this, same drill as always:
Stop replying to him, ignore the troll, and move on. |
I agree on parts of your position: There are indeed many ways to play the Soviets and the Cons are a way, I often underconsider, since they feel like a pretty bad choice. Although I often see good players go with them.
But if you consider Cons AT-Nade, thats another 25 Fuel to spend, just for a vehicle, that costs 30 Fuel... don't you think, that's an issue?
The DSHK, Guards and Partisan Tank Hunters are all doctrinal units. I think using a Doctrin to counter a 250 MP and 30 Fuel Light-Vehicle is a little bit too much (although I must agree, many good Doctrins have a Guard-Option and of course, you can use these Doctrins beyond the 222  )
The Penal-PTRS is an T1-Option, but as I pointed out before, they scale very bad into the late-game then. Again, for 30 Fuel-Vehicle and without the real chance of destroying it...
Simply said, that is why the meta is the way it is currently. If OKW goes a meta doctrine, and soviet goes penals and lend lease, then theyre on relatively even ground. It's not that soviets lack a counter to light vehicles and need to be buffed, its that they lack options and need their power redistributed (to other doctrines and units). As things are now, penals and lend lease allow a pretty well balanced and even match against okw, the winner generally really is the one that played better. That said, this balance relies on mechanics and units that may or may not be particularly healthy for the game.
As to refocus how this reply applies to the greater discussion: I don't think they need an early t3/t70 timing. I don't think soviets need a buff (read: more power added). They need the power that they do have to be redistributed to things other than dshks, penals, and m4cs. |
You have to understand that there are different kinds of back n forths regarding vehicles rushes/stages which can be heavily determined by who has the map resource advantage.
Working by memory it goes something like this:
1- Kubel-Bren Carrier. BC kills kubels. Get's countered by any of the following vehicles.
2- Dodge-M3A1(SU)
2.5- 60/90muni timing. BC gets upgraded and SU gets flamer clowncar.
3- 222-M20
3.5- FHT/AAHT/Flak HT. Not sure about Greyhound but who use it lol. Same with HT (USF).
4- P2-AEC-M5 AA (SU)
4.5- Puma-Stuart >> T70/Su76 (meaning later).
5- Medium tanks UKF>USF>SU=OH>OKW
Great list that provides some level of insight into vehicles timings. I would like to say though that the AEC *can* (not that theres a reason for it to) come out earlier than the p2 - it has a similar fuel timing to the usf AAHT at 3.5. Pumas can come out at a similar time to luchs (10 fuel later, fair enough if you consider that a different tier though), and the stuart basically has the same fuel timing as the luchs as well. |
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