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Thread: Wehr weak penetration18 Oct 2019, 12:00 PM Jump back to quoted post18 Oct 2019, 11:27 AMVipper Actually what I personally find frustrating is having to pay top dollar for getting armor on vehicle and having to vet it to get even more, only to be penetrated with 100% chance even at max range. By a dedicated tank destroyer. That armour makes those heavy vehicles all but immune to medium tanks, forcing the opponent to invest a lot of resources in a tank destroyer or a Panther that'll make little or no contribution to the manpower battle. Armour isn't for bouncing tank destroyers. It's for bouncing everything else. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Wehr weak penetration18 Oct 2019, 10:59 AM Jump back to quoted post18 Oct 2019, 10:32 AMVipper Balance might or might not be fine but having TDs that can hit and penetrate anything that is not a KT from range 60 with chances close to 100% is bad design resulting in reducing game diversity. Reducing the effectiveness of long range TDs at max range will be an improvement to the game. I don't agree with that. It'd just be adding more frustrating low probability bounces and making heavy armour even stronger. Your switchable rounds concept is a much better idea for weakening tank destroyers against medium armour. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Jagdpanzer IV Refit17 Oct 2019, 14:49 PM Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 14:27 PMVipper Axis do not have premium mediums...unless you want to count Ostheer doctrinal Panzer H. OKW has a stock premium medium. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Wehr weak penetration17 Oct 2019, 14:22 PM Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 14:21 PMSerrith The only vehicle here which has mediocre penetration is the panzer 4 and the reason for this is because of its armor compared to other tanks of similar cost. The P4's penetration is in line with other medium tanks. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Unauthorized Tanks17 Oct 2019, 10:46 AM I'm forking this off from the other thread because it's a very different proposal. In the last patch cycle, the Balance Team floated the idea of putting the Jagdpanzer IV, Flame Hetzer and Ostwind in the SPHQ at the same timing as Obersoldaten: before the Panzer Authorisation upgrade. This didn't happen in the live release, making the SPHQ split pretty much just a timing buff for Obersoldaten. When the split was initially proposed several months ago, the split was intended to be JPIV and Obers before, then P4s and P5s after the upgrade. This is an undeniable buff to the OKW faction, but it has a number of internal benefits to the teching structure: The JPIV's role is further distinguished from the Panther by having a different timing window. The Battlegroup build becomes more viable as it gets an AT vehicle 60 FU earlier. If OKW loses the SPHQ, rebuilding half of it and calling in Jagdpanzers is a viable option. Currently the most cost effective option is stalling for the KT. I also think the Flame Hetzer being pre-Authorisation would be a neat buff to the off-meta Feuersturm doctrine, and its lack of any AT capability means it can be countered with light vehicles available in its timing window. The Ostwind, in my view, should stay requiring Panzer Authorisation because of its ability to kill AT lights. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Jagdpanzer IV Refit17 Oct 2019, 10:35 AM Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 05:53 AMSuperHansFan I am not saying your thread is totally wrong, but insisting it can only counter allied meds is just wrong. You build it on long range maps, urban maps you also have the option of more mobile panther. Stock it can struggle against IS_2, but by the time an IS2 is on the field it will have unlocked it's powerful RoF buffs. In a large teamgame where it's got endless things to shoot at, maybe. The idea is it can sidegrade for better penetration at the cost of rate of fire. You refit it into an SU-85 and give up its strengths in the process. The core problem of the idea that would need to be resolved is you've then got an SU-85 with the durability of a JPIV, but I think it's solid beyond that. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Jagdpanzer IV Refit16 Oct 2019, 17:48 PM Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 16:38 PMVipper Keep in mind that the cost for the dozer upgrade is 50/20 The dozer upgrade is an abomination and I'm not going to base any of my decision-making off it. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Jagdpanzer IV Refit16 Oct 2019, 17:45 PM Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 17:31 PMSander93 Would that really change anything, though? A lower damage, high pen tank destroyer is exactly what the Panther is. There would still be not much of a reason to build a Jagdpanzer IV for that purpose, because the Panther has a lot more advantages with its turret, higher mobility and higher durability for only a slightly higher cost. What makes the Jagdpanzer IV attractive is its higher range, high accuracy, and (with vet) very high DPM compared to the Panther, which makes it an excellent alternative in large team games maps or when facing multiple Allied TDs, or when supporting a heavy tank. You don't build a Jagdpanzer IV for that purpose. You convert the Jagdpanzer IV you already have for that purpose. The Jagdpanzer IV risks being rendered ineffective by a shift in the enemy force composition towards heavy armour. The Panzer IV and Panther do not face the same risk: the Panzer IV is a competent anti-infantry unit and the Panther has high enough penetration to face just about anything. The StuG has a similar problem, but it at least has the saving grace of being dirt cheap and having some anti-infantry capability. The core concept of this proposal is to allow you to refit JPIVs to fight heavies, but you trade away their core strength (high RoF against mediums) to do it. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Jagdpanzer IV Refit16 Oct 2019, 17:22 PM Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 16:56 PMthedarkarmadillo Interesting proposal. How would it interact with HEAT rounds? Added: I do agree with sander though. The unit isn't really problematic it's just sort of niche It's very niche. The core concept here is a sidegrade that shifts the JPIV from a high damage, low pen tank destroyer into a lower damage, higher pen tank destroyer. I've proposed numbers, but you could always tweak them. You could make similar refit upgrades for other units that only work well in one mode. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Jagdpanzer IV Refit16 Oct 2019, 17:17 PM Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 16:31 PMBlueKnight I could say that building SU-85 in 2v2 preemptively assuming my enemy is going to build a PIV, PV, Brummbar or a Tiger is the same risk as for an OKW player to build a JPIV. Except it isn't. The SU-85 will work against any armoured vehicle. The JPIV is not very effective against high armour vehicles. In: COH2 Balance