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Thread: I strongly oppose the Soviet sniper change25 Apr 2018, 17:23 PM Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 17:09 PMNosliw Because the sniper dynamic gives an advantage to soviet snipers, not just a different in flavour. An advantage specifically against the Ostheer sniper (and maybe the G43). Elsewhere a 2-man squad sniper squad is a weakness: it bleeds manpower and is more vulnerable to AoE. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: I strongly oppose the Soviet sniper change25 Apr 2018, 17:01 PM Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 16:51 PMNosliw God forbid Soviets actually have a unit on equal playing field with other factions. I like the two man squad. My point is that the 2-man to 1-man change is only necessary to make it vulnerable to countersnipes: sniper durability and sniper countersnipe vulnerability are independent variables. If the balance team decide that being able to countersnipe a Scout Sniper ~~Squad~~ is better for the game then I'll just have to trust them on that. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: I strongly oppose the Soviet sniper change25 Apr 2018, 16:50 PM Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 16:40 PMKatitof That old system is responsible for one of the most cancerous meta in CoH history... The one thing I thought to myself when I've seen CoH2 soviet recon team for the first time was "GOD YES, finally no more sniper wars bullshit" and then brits came and now this. And having your sniper on hold for 30 minutes while microing from cover to cover, waiting until your opponent shoots first is -NOT- an interesting gameplay dynamic or fun to watch micro. I've actually yet to see anyone say they want the Soviet sniper to be vulnerable to countersnipes. There just seems to be this broad assumption that making the squad one man is somehow necessary to reduce its survivability. It's not. Received accuracy and health are what determines its survivability. The only reason I can see to make it one man is to make it countersnipeable. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: I strongly oppose the Soviet sniper change25 Apr 2018, 15:48 PM Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 14:55 PMKatitof You are literally chasing your own tail at this point.... I don't know if you don't want to see ElSlayers point or are incapable of seeing it. Snipers are completely accurate and kill on every shot. This makes them independent of the accuracy, damage and received accuracy mechanisms that usually define the performance of squads against one another. Therefore the effectiveness of a sniper depends on the models it shoots. The fewer models in the enemy army the more of it a sniper kills per shot. The more expensive the reinforcement cost of the models it kills the more manpower bleed it inflicts. This means that any given sniper is inherently more valuable against an enemy composition with fewer, more expensive models in it than it is against a composition with lots of cheap models. If you want a sniper facing lots of cheap models to perform the same as a sniper facing more expensive models then you give the cheap model facing sniper a higher rate of fire. If you disagree that the Soviet sniper generally faces a higher proportion of expensive models than the Ostheer one then fair enough. But if not I can't see why anyone'd expect an Ostheer sniper clone in Soviet (what we're essentially getting in the first iteration of the patch) not to have a lower rate of fire. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: I strongly oppose the Soviet sniper change25 Apr 2018, 14:43 PM I still don't understand why should Conscripts have lower DPS and MORE durability than their Wehrmacht counterpart and Sniper have lower DPS and SAME durablilty as its Wehrmacht counterpart. Because the Soviet sniper is generally shooting less numerous, more expensive models than its Ostheer counterpart. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: I strongly oppose the Soviet sniper change25 Apr 2018, 13:48 PM Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 13:28 PMElSlayer Dude, of course by DPS I meant "how quickly they snipe models" (rate of fire). OBVIOUSLY. The post in question: "3) Why more durable Conscripts must have lower DPS than less durable Grens, but Soviet Sniper with SAME durability (after proposed change) should STILL HAVE LOWER DPS that its Wehrmacht counterpart?" The damage output of an infantry squad is affected by cover, range, accuracy, rate of fire, weapon damage and enemy received accuracy. The damage output of a sniper is affected by how fast it can shoot. Simplifying them both down to a single DPS value each doesn't make for meaningful comparisons. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: US Carbine, Caliber .30 M125 Apr 2018, 11:46 AM It seems a pretty harmless change. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: I strongly oppose the Soviet sniper change25 Apr 2018, 11:28 AM Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 10:57 AMKatitof So.... if its balanced against high number squads... would not that directly translate to being op vs low number squads....? And one balanced against low number squads will underperform a bit vs high number squads... Pretty much. A sniper kills one model per shot. The more important that model, the more pain it inflicts. The more often it can shoot, the more often it inflicts that pain. By the very nature of the unit the Ostheer sniper will be better against UKF and USF than it is against SOV. Were mirror matches a thing the Ostheer sniper would at its most potent against Ostheer itself. The Soviet sniper is usually shooting 4-man squads or 5-man Volksgrenadiers. The Ostheer sniper is usually shooting 6-man Soviet squads or 5-man UKF and USF squads. Therefore, an identical sniper is inherently more effective the Soviet faction than it is to the Ostheer faction. That's why the one-man Soviet sniper shoots more slowly than the Ostheer one. Where the exact balance point is I have no idea but it's below 1:1. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: I strongly oppose the Soviet sniper change25 Apr 2018, 10:48 AM Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 10:47 AMKatitof Again, ost sniper does not shoot slower against UKF and UKF sniper already got lower ROF out of the gate. Which makes it more effective against UKF squads than it is against Soviet ones. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: I strongly oppose the Soviet sniper change25 Apr 2018, 10:45 AM Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 10:41 AMthedarkarmadillo Thats absolute bullshit and you know it It's completely true. A Grenadier model is a bigger loss than a Conscript model. It has higher stats and costs more to replace. That's how the 4 man squads are balanced against the 6 man squads. The models in the 4 man squad are better. Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 10:45 AMEsxile Oh so when a Ostheer sniper shot at a Tommy squad, it is a less individual valuable model to shot at? When did the Soviets get the Infantry section added to their lineup? If you're looking at Ostheer/UKF matchup then it's the UKF sniper you're comparing to the Ostheer one. The Soviet one is irrelevant. In: COH2 Balance