I disagree, allies dont rely that much on team weapons... SU have 6 man team crews and USF can chase them with Stuarts and UKF with AEC.
Its a big change but OKM wont become "volksverpowered" IMO
The issue is that if Mechanized gets cheap, easily accessible indirect fire, why would you ever go Battlegroup? |
If the ATG was set up and had time to cloak it should have bonus damage on the first shot maybe? Like an aimed shot thingy
It's called First Strike bonus, I think it's accuracy rather than damage, but the cloaked ZiS has it and the Raketenwerfer could probably do with it if it doesn't. |
Replace stuka zu fuss with the mortar halftruck and add stuka to doctrine. 
Its Vipper idea and the best on this forum.
I thought that too, then J4J pointed out that that'd make T2 even more favourable than it is already. |
or simply put obers in tier 1 without lmg ? they would work like PG but long range
Something like Obers » T1, Stuka » T3, IRHT » T2?
That'd definitely shift some power to T1: very strong early infantry and they don't get screwed out of the Stuka later on.
It doesn't address the bleed problem J4J pointed out though, not with the reinforcement cost of Obers. Would T1 with Obers (probably instead of the IRHT) just end up a worse/better Ostheer? |
The point I'm getting at is that if you're going to go t1 and play a fair, static/defensive game, why even go OKW? T1 OKW is just a worst ostheer with a better early game. At least if you go ostheer, you have a good standard anti tank gun, snipers, easy to use indirect fire, and an excellent HMG. Any design for T1 thats main draw is giving them tools that ostheer has (indirect fire, healing, troop transport and reinforcement - I wouldn't say the flak halftrack has any real draw, design wise) will just make t1 OKW a worse ostheer (or a better ostheer, in which case ostheer gets picked even less).
That's an excellent point I hadn't considered.
In that case, what if T1 was a defensive light vehicle tier?
Firstly, put the LeiG in T0 with the HMG34 and lock them both behind a sidetech. Not cripplingly expensive, but expensive enough to be worth skipping if you can manage your vehicles well.
Then T1 has three of the following in it:
- 250 Halftrack (Ostheer German Infantry Doctrine)
- 250 Mortar Halftrack
- 251 Flak Halftrack
- 221 Scout Car (balanced like a USF M20 Utility Car)
- Funkwagen Vampire Halftrack
- Goliath
- Second Panzerschreck for Sturmpioneers
- IRHT
- Jagdpanzer IV
Could you build a T1 that competes with T2 but doesn't kill it out of those units? |
Axis players:
Penuls 2 stronk, such stronk inf should never be in early tier!
Also axis players:
Lets put Obers in T0!
Also remove any and all possible faction disadvantages or reason to backtech later from going T1 or T2, because reasons!
I've never complained about Penals. I like Penals. Penals are good.
T0 Obers would obviously need a balance pass.
If by 'faction disadvantages' you mean stuff like pre-rework USF choosing between no suppression or no AT gun, UKF lacking basic indirect fire or something as basic as snares and Sov's basic infantry having the utility they rely on shoved behind a crippling sidetech barrier, then yes, I'm all for removing 'faction disadvantages', and I very much approve of the direction the balance team is taking things.
Also why does OKW need a rework? The faction is fine as it is.
Is it? It's powerful, but that power, like pre-SBP UKF, comes from a few very cost-efficient units compensating for an otherwise very awkward faction design.
Jae For Jett's convinced me that the suggestion in the OP isn't the solution, but that doesn't mean there's not a problem.
My cursory thought is that this would be a buff to OKW and further push T2, both things that I'm sure many people would agree do not need to happen.
T2 now has cheaper, more reliable indirect fire, and t1 no longer has access to the mg34.
Obers arrive sooner too, so you would probably need to nerf them (check their stats).
I also don't see any concrete benefits, design wise.
I think that's a fair assessment.
Assuming T2 is Luchs/Puma/Stuka, what would you want from Battlegroup other than a faster T3 to make it a meaningful choice? |
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A very simple change that could be a huge buff to the OKW Feuersturm Doctrine.
Replace the Opel Blitz Munitions halftrack with the newly revamped 250 HT.
The 250 HT can provide on-field reinforcement when dug in, serving the same role the Opel Blitz did. Furthermore it's got a gun on it, so it can support the infantry it's reinforcing rather than just being a bad ambulance.
It's also an open-top half track, which gives it amazing synergy with Feuersturm's Assault Packages. Stick MP40 Volksgrenadiers or Flamer Sturmpioneers in it and you've got a shock unit. Stick a Panzershreck Sturmpioneer squad in it and you've got a light AT vehicle.
Thoughts? |
Collecting a few ideas from the forum into a single, very straightforward OKW tech rework. The idea is to keep it as simple as the USF one.
- T0: Volksgrenadiers, Sturmpioneers, Raketenwerfer, Obersoldaten, Kubelwagen
- T1: LeIG, IRHT, 250 Halftrack, Flak Halftrack
- T2: HMG34, Luchs, Puma, Mortar Halftrack
- T3: Panzer IV, Jagdpanzer IV, Panther, Stuka
Obersoldaten LMGs require two trucks. If Obersoldaten as the first unit are too powerful, the unit itself can be gated behind a truck call-in (like the 221) or a set-up truck (like the HMG34).
It's loosely based on USF: one tier gets vehicular indirect and small-arms suppression, the other gets an indirect fire team weapon and vehicular suppression.
Earlier Obers provide a much-needed alternative to Volks spam, although they may need some retuning for the much earlier timing.
The 250 standard HT provides a versatile unit to support T1 builds. It can fill a wide array of roles with infantry garrisoned inside, and is particularly strong with the Feuersturm doctrine.
The 250 MHT provides T2 with indirect fire, and it's cheap enough (30 FU) to not slow OKW's teching as hard as Stuka would.
The Stuka being in T4 prevents the very early Stukas causing problems in teamgames, and means that Battlegroup builds aren't screwed when they need late game rocket artillery. |
If the ATG can not rotate in camo then one would always have to set them up and not leave them in "attack" mod.
Correct. I don't think this is a problem. |
I am not sure if the game engine can tell the difference from moving and rotating. And there many cases where clocked units perform in a bugged way.
It might be possible to fix these issues by giving the "elite camo" to the ATG.
When you say rotate, do you mean the gun barrel aiming, or do you mean the crew picking up the gun and turning it?
Obviously they need to be able to do the first, but do they need to be able to do the second? |
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