I use shit to reply shit
Then 'shit' is what you will be judged on by everyone else.
USF doesn't need a nondoctrinal mobile howitzer. The tool is there doctrinally, but it has plenty of other tools to deal with team weapons. The Priest and Calliope are particularly good at it, but if they weren't why would you ever pick those doctrines? |
It is nothing to do with JLI is doctrinal or not in this thread. Just start another thread if you think JLI should be non-doctrinal. It is always welcomed.
You've made the case that OKW has 'everything' nondoctrinally and therefore USF should too.
The counterpoint has been made that OKW does not have everything nondoctrinally. No faction does.
- OST doesn't have a nondoctrinal 60 range tank destroyer or a light tank.
- SOV doesn't have a nondoctrinal premium brawler tank.
- USF doesn't have nondoctrinal heavy artillery vehicles or snipers.
- OKW doesn't have nondoctrinal onfield reinforcement or snipers.
- UKF doesn't have nondoctrinal mobile indirect fire outright.
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5 models create a problem with the Panzerschreck upgrade, as they would possibly get too much survivability. But this could be solved by giving them AI and AT upgrade paths (different stock weapons), where the AI path gives them an extra man as well as the STGs.
Something like this maybe?
- Panzergrenadier squad cost reduced to 280.
- Panzergrenadier STG damage reduced by 20%.
- New upgrade path added that adds a 5th man, mutually exclusive with Panzershrecks.
Less manpower spent on 4-man Shreck Panzergrens, and 5-man anti-infantry PGrens with the same damage output. Could work.
You'd also still have the option of cheaper, smaller PGren squads you can upgrade to 5 man later. |
They have JLI that has the same mechanism of a sniper that nglect any cover and kill model behind it and serve the same purpose of a sniper which is recon and cover neglecting. ISG that has the same mechanism of a mortar and has the same purpose of a mortar as well.
Anyway, so you want to go deep into it and repeat the off topic meta which some faction get something and finally comes with a conclusion that every faction has its perks and cons so let's withdraw from balancing this game,right?
JLI are doctrinal.
USF has doctrinal mobile howitzers and rocket artillery. |
So prove this first when you are accusing me for demanding everything available to USF which I never demand a sniper, right?
No, he asked you to back up your claim that OKW has everything by telling him where the sniper is in the OKW faction.
I'll go one further and ask where their reinforcement halftrack is too. |
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I maintain one of the major reasons Grens are so favourable to PGrens is because they have no DPS concentration.
The vast majorty of mainline infantry have weapon upgrades, which concentrate the DPS of the squad on one or two models. Losing models then is only a small DPS loss.
PGrens, however, have that DPS evenly split, so every model drop cuts that DPS by 25%. Combine that with (iirc) the same received accuracy stats as Grenadiers, and their impressive on-paper firepower is rapidly lost.
With Penals, this was solved with To The Last Man: the squad gets stat boosts to compensate for losing models. You could give PGrens the same ability so dropping to a 3 or 2 man squad doesn't cripple them.
Beyond that? This is a squad that needs to close in without losing a model and has no tools to do so. What it needs is reliable durability. An extra man makes problems with the AT upgrade, and received accuracy is random, unreliable and provides no protection from the AoE weapons PGrens find themselves up against.
I reckon it's worth experimenting with Received Damage on them. |
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No way do the Kubel and M20 serve the same role. The M20 is a shock unit, minelayer and sniper hunter. The Kubel is a capping vehicle. |
I play soviet mainly. But I want my teammate become a bit more useful.
Axis always get nondoc rocket artillery no matter what kind of combination.
Doesn't mean they'll build it, use it or use it well. Never expect consistent or sensible behaviour from random teammates. |
You don't need to kill the emplacement directly with stuka. Just kill all the team weapons and engineer that protecting the emplacement with yummy experience, then an ATG or any kind of tanks can finish its job easily.
Not with the magic instarepair assembly it won't.
Stukas are good against team weapons because that's what rocket arty is for. Against Advanced Emplacement Regiment it's pretty terrible. |
Just show me a stock unit of USF that can be a equivalent when compare to stuka while serving the same purpose. The definition of serving same purpose would be a unit with a powerful barrage that can deal a lot of output in a short time to an area without the need to holding the line and is devastating enough to kill a team weapon with a salvo if it hits while keeping itself in a relatively safe distance which can't be return fire by mortars. If it exists, I will be convinced. Be careful, priest is not a stock unit although it fulfill the role above.
If you want nondoc rocket artillery, why are you playing USF? |
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