I would really like some of this theory experts show real footage of the highly convoluted solutions they propose.
Other than that I've see no real answer to Croc+firefly
Throw two Panthers at it: they cost less then Croc+Firefly. Kill the Firefly first.
No "'overpowered' is a completely subjective term".
JLI where OP
Tiger ACE was op
Assault Grenadier where OP
Win industry was OP
Cancer commander was OP
Penal with flamer where OP
USF mortar was OP
....
Overpowered is a completely subjective term.
Without objective criteria to define something as overpowered, it is subjective.
Saying that all those things on your list were overpowered is also subjective. Widely agreed, but subjective nonetheless.
That's what Katitof was saying. You can't expect people to treat your opinions as facts. |
The point is, everyone cried the JT was OP, received a nerf. Now we have a threads about the Churchill and KV-1 and it’s just L2P as a response. Seems pretty dumb.
The dumb thing is crowdsourcing balance in the first place.
Outside of repeating like a broken record, we do not have any actual evidence that churchill or kv-1 are not op in any way.
Because, surprise surprise, 'overpowered' is a completely subjective term. |
Such as? Try using 50 range raks vs croc...
If it's the Croc rather than a standard Churchill, make that about 1080 MP 385 FU worth of stuff.
Which is easily two Panthers. |
I'd honestly like to hear how the primarily allied players would counter a croc backed by a firefly in 1v1. If the "big and slow" heavy tanks should have high rear armor because of that, shouldn't we buff JT rear armor to like 200? I mean it's the slowest tank in the game right?
I'd assume with 930 MP 370 FU worth of stuff. |
Now do the math for range for 50 and keep in mind that SU-76 is cheaper than Stug.
My point simply Churchill has a comparable chance to be penetrate by axis units with the Panther and Brumbar have. Describing Churchill as low armored vehicle and Panther/Brumbar vehicles is simply misleading.
As of the next patch, the SU-76's chance to frontally penetrate a Brummbar or a Panther at 50 range is 62%.
That drops to 56% for the Panther and 47% for the Brummbar when they get their skirts.
EDIT: Unless it interpolates. In which case you get a whopping 1% extra chance to penetrate. |
The cheaper Su-76 has 69% chance to penetrate Brumbar (or a Panther) range 60 (not 50 as the Stug) and so I guess by your logic both the Brumabar (or the panther )as T4 slow unit is not effective.
Bringing up this argument was a bad idea because it basically proves your whole point wrong.
As of the next patch, the SU-76's chance to frontally penetrate a Brummbar or a Panther at max range is 62%.
That drops to 56% for the Panther and 47% for the Brummbar when they get their skirts. |
no just remove 30-40 armor from the rear, that's it
That'd change a flanking P4's chance to penetrate a Churchill from 70% to 82%, assuming it's right up in its face. |
Imho, chirchuils tanks are great, I just can't say they are OP, but as other sponge tanks, they always get a 'extra' function rather than the one they are meant. It's the critical mass role. In other words if you are dumb enough to let your opponent get two churchill's, it's almost game over. They both need a royal amount of countering to stop them. Team games can exploit that.
Other than that the tank is fine.
Sure, but that's true of vehicles in general. If you let your opponent amass too many and you don't build the units to counter them, you lose.
That's a basic fact of the game, not a balance issue. |
that's fair but it has more armor than super heavy in the rear while having comparable frontal armor, and everytinh should have a counter, i think rear armor for vehicle should be the universal counter , i mean the whole point of COH2 is using the enemy weakness aganist them and catching them out of position
That's the thing: it doesn't have comparable front armour to the super heavy tanks. Its front armour is barely better than an OKW Panzer IV, which has 234.
All the Churchill's abilities are geared towards close combat: short range grenades, SMGs on the side, smoke emitters originally designed to make a pathway for infantry. Therefore it sacrifices high frontal armour in favour of high rear armour.
What makes it so tough is the metric shit-ton of hit points it has. |
While I agree with the part of this, I don't think a model-cap would fix it. The problem isn't entirely the unlikely wipes; it's getting grens down to 50-60% HP (but with all 4 models still up) that leaves them incredibly vulnerable to infantry pushes, due to WFA's incredibly high infantry DPS. That said, the RNG wipes would be nice to see gone.
Model capping means you can only hit two models at once.
It'd be important to only apply this to autofire, or the barrage won't do shit to Maxims. |
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