They arrive nearly at same time as Grenadiers arrive. And Grenadiers are without vet and upgrade as cost-effective as Obersoldaten. So you can also say, that Penals are ~20% more effective as Grenadiers at vet0 and 20 range.
So you can say, the are OP as fu**. So even if you say they are more expensive, they have to be better. But they are 14% more effective as a Grenadier squad per menpower.
20 range:
1*Penal (one man) = 4,433 dps => 6*Penal (one squad) = 26,598 dps / 300 (price) = 0,089 dps/mp
1*Gren (one man) = 4,374 dps => 4*Gren (one squad) = 17,496 dps / 240 (Price) = 0,073 dps/mp
100 / 0,073 * 0,089 = 121,918 = ~22%
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The king tiger is arguably worse then the normal one, especially it's speed. It's also more exspenive. so i think these points dont hold water.
Do you think so? It has more armor, more hp. Sure, less speed and a higher price. But it also has a way more powerful gun. And with the high survivability it works better than the normal Tiger for me.
The normal Tiger is simply not good. Or, Pershing etc. are simply too good versus infantry. |
After some calculation on 20 range without vet. Did you know that a Penal_squad gets 14,86% more dps per invested menpower than an Obersoldat_squad?
That is even worse than Cons versus Obersoldaten. Which get only 12,75 less dps per menpower. |
Why the Higher CP and other abilities though? All other heavy tanks come out at 13CP so I don't see no reason why this should be any different. Make it any higher then 13 and you will never see it because the match will always be over before players have the choice to use it (1v1) The KT is already balanced for price and performance against other heavy tanks so changing the abilities or the price will just throw a wrench in the game balance and a good functioning unit.
Because the King is way besser as a normal Tiger, also higher CP can allow some extra abilities to make it different to OKW version like a explosive round (one Brummbär shot on target, funktion as Comet's phosphor shell) etc. |
I like the idea of King-Tiger for Ostheer. Maybe some other abilities and other vet and CP16. Should be better too balance. |
lategame obers and heavy mg-34 play can stop penal play alone pretty easily... t1/t2 might be harder to beat...
They perform ok, but NOT in the first min of game. Give them worse start weapons, old weapon profile with a 30mun mun upgrade.
After that we can balance Cons, Maxim etc. |
Overall, @distrofio's idea isn't that bad.
Soviets then Need something like a refresh truck in T0 etc.
->
Penals become very cheap suicide squads, can't reinforce. You have to build Cons to fill them up. For that you can refresh Cons in field by a truck. Would be funny. |
there was an about 5-month long penal preview patch and like 50 threads about penals in forum.
New commander-revamp, new multiplayer feeling, new thread. |
Going by your logic, you conveniently forgot that panthers hp was "increased massively" as well, together with RoF buff that means its that much more effective against its own counter, because it can soak more independently of RNG that wasn't in its favor.
And KT is NOT supposed to be engaging its own hardcounters, that's why all TDs in game are faster then it.
What the F is with the notion whithin all axis players that axis units should be able to fight their own hardcounters? That's not only counter intuitive to the whole balance decided, that's as moronic as it gets to the very core.
You need to counter TDs? Either flank them with armor that will always win when it gets first shot(P4 and above), spam extremely cheap and expendable alternative(stug4 in ost case) or just get a vehicle that also got 60 range and is superior in TD engagement(JP4).
KT roflstomps every singular allied tank in its range, it doesn't need to roflstomp its own hardcounters as well. Just because its expensive, does not mean it should be replacement for your whole mechanized part of the army. Given how extremely easy OKW scouting options are with IR HT, not being able to creep puppchens up to these TDs is nothing less but your very own lack of imagination and skill.
Panther is also more expensive, has less accuracy. That is why it is better on paper, and still has less range with a tiny nerf.
And also with a range nerf allii tankhunters outrange king and also are faster. I don't want the meat grinder back, so the range nerf is a possibility.
And you know what range nerf for Allii tankhunters mean? We can also reduce range of heavy tankhunters, we should all like. |
Oh god tank destroyers counter tanks. The horror.
Didn’t know range was literally the only stat in this game. The panther can have 60 range as soon as the Jackson has 960 hp, like 300 armor, and blitz, and the stug can have 60 range as soon as the firefly has like a 4 second reload and costs 90 fuel. The game is about balance.
With your nerf their range is impossible to take advantage of against the units they’re specifically designed to counter. I’m sounding a lot like a broken record and I’m probably going to stop replying at some point because such a nerf makes absolutely no sense.
Panther doesn't have 300 armor anymore and Jackson got its HP increased massively. So, now?
And well, I don't want 60 range one them, was sarcasm. But still a range nerf for Jackson and Firefly to 55. So they become less easy to play. So also King get the chance to hit one, if enemy has bad micro. |