Lets maybe start at not randomly switching OST and OKW units around? Especially not units like the MG42 which is supposed to be the unit Ost is played around for the first stages of the game. You can´t seriously suggest terrible ideas like that and expect no one to call you out on it.
HMG42 was a T1 unit, there is the min. place it has to be. Why it got moved? Because balance-team was too
incompetent to touch normal german meter like Pios and Grens.
Why PnzGrens get now T0 (T1)? Mybe because on many Maps PaK40 is crap and there has to be a Schreck-unit. Or mybe because Soviets blobb penals and there is no counter to that?
Now look at Ostheer, it has a 222 (good old days a 221) and a Ostwind. God bless now they buff Ostwind, but still, the line-up in T3 is broken. What would be the Optimum? A Panzer3 instead of Panzer4, but we don't have it ingame.
There are many other Things don't fit right, and they tried to fix this lack of units or performance by increase the spectrum of efficiency instead of change the line-up.
-> That is the same Problem for UK as a hole. The fraction is missing important units, so some Things has to be OP. Like Vickers has much DPS, miles-bomb has no min-range is cheap. etc. The Problem is the line-up and the bad "scissors stone paper"-System. |
You make a good point but your solution is bad IMHO.
I think it should go like this:
-Tiger and KingTiger range to 65 - that way they dont get outranged by jackson
-Stug and JagdPanzer range to 70 because they dont have turret
-Panther armor to 300 just like in old good times (historically accurate btw)
CoH isn't MenOfWar. It has to find the right balance between historical bullsh*t and right setting.
That is why Tiger and Kingtiger get outranged by everything, because it has to be like that. The Question is, does the game has fair counters? And the answer it a clear NO.
Edit:
e.g. there is a reason why Comet has 45 range, because now it has a Little bit less range than StuG and Panther with 50 range.
Brummbär has only 35 range (60 for ability), why? Because PaKs etc. get a chance to outplay it.
Now my Question: Why does Firefly and Jackson have 60 range, but the fractions also have PaKs with 60 range? All German vehicles got armor nerfs and even heavies get penned by ~80% on Long-range. = broken balance.
The only Solutions are: Nerf UK and US PaKs range to 55 or Jackson and Firefly range to 55. |
I just wanted to highlight your brilliant idea of giving panther 60 range. I think that might be the change we all needed, assuming command panther gets 60 range as well.
Nobody would dare to say that panther is underpowered with these changes right?
Who am i kidding, next step 300 armor and 1400 hp.
There is a reason why I wrote a "-". The hole range system is broken, it became better when they hard-nerfed the range some years ago.
And yes, Panther in hull-down gets 62,5 range (effective 60, because of hit-box). But german vehicle can't benefit form that, because they will still fight versus 60 range units.
By put down range for Firefly, Jackson to 55 range they will still outrange Tiger and Kingtiger by 10 range and will be in critical range for Paks like ALL german tanks are. (only Jagdpanzer, Elefant and Jagdtiger).
If we now look on units without turret, they should get a benefit for that. So Jagdpanzer4 and SU85 stay at 60 range.
Best thing would be to remove Jagdtiger and Elefant from game, the hole balancing would benefit a lot. But that will not happen. But if Firefly and Jackson get their range-nerf also the Ultra hevay tankhunters can get a range-nerf. So they become easyer to counter by PaKs. |
I think the Brits adequately showed what happens when you'd remove snares from a faction. Replacing the Rakettenwerfer isn't an option either, as it would either leave OKW without an ATG (if you'd keep the AT/AI ISG in Battlegroup) in the most viable meta (Mechanized) or it would make Battlegroup even less attractive (if you'd move the ISG to the HQ).
I'd also be against units that efficiently serve two distinct roles at the same time. I never liked how with the ZiS going for heavy anti-tank also gives good AI (or anti support weapons) and by now it's clear that giving the M-42 a dual role was a mistake as well. The game is about strategic unit choices with limited resources and dual purpose units are bad for balance.
OKW does need some redesigns, but mostly to make spread out the faction's power level more evenly across all stages of the match (tone down opening power, earlier Obers, etc.) and to get rid of some cheesy mechanics of certain units (Raketten stealth creep, Uhu, etc.) so the faction becomes more enjoyable both to play with as well as against.
- They will still have a snare, the AT-rifle-grenade. Less damage, but more range.
- The hole game is full of bad designed units, which could be solved by moving them to other fractions.
e.g. in my opinion:
- Luchs has to be in Ostheer
- HMG42 has to be in OKW
- leIG18 has to be in Ostheer
- 222 has to be in OKW
- etc.
- leIG18 is a shame of an arty. The AT-roule would be pefect. 50 range, light arty cover.
-> and yes, line-up has to be changed more.
But first, before we touch anything we have to destroy the MG-meter of all fractions. It is simply cancer. |
From churchill thread:
You can close thread now and start balancing.
Why is Churchill good? Because it will get support by a Fire-Fly, which can shoot in save distance covered by Churchill.
The hole thread is useless, because real Problem doesn't get touched.
e.g. If Firefly gets 55 range, then the chance to hold it on save distance will be increased a lot. Panther can deal with Chruchill, while PaK can shoot Firefly.
Hull-down will become more usefull too, because StuG and Panther will outrange a little bit.
On the other sinde, also 88s, Jagdtiger and Elefant need a touch. It should not need commander Units to outplay normal meter. |
- I am for giving Volksgrens the AT-rifle-grenade without requirements. (remove the Faust)
- I am for giving Volksgrens a normal grenade (remove the fire-nade)
- I am for giving Sturmpioniers a klick-me-bomb (removing the shock-nade at Vet3)
- I am for replace Püppchen with my alternative design for leIG18.
- Make Püppchen a Commander-Unit.
OKW is simply a shit of a fraction-design, same for Brits. And Ostheer would be better with Soviets-tech-System and Soviets would be better with Ost-tech-System...
so...
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For damage you have Tommies, the real problem is the early versus OKW. For that you don't need a MG on steroids breakibg the game.
You ever used a Vickerd as Ostheer? It will be dooms-day.
There has to be a better solution. After PnzGrend arrive earlier I think UK-Pios could be instant 5-men troups. Everything is better than MG meter. |
Brits have so many problems and they also have many op things too.
For me the hole locking system has to be removed, so you can build AEC and bofors. Also Churchill and Comet.
Instead of Hammer and Anvil there should only be one small upgrade to allow building Firefly. The gammon-bomb, Schrapnell-Arty, etc. should be extra upgrades.
Beside:
- Nerf british grenade (it has no min. range, also can be used under red suppression)
- Nerf Vickers (give it Maxim's DPS)
- Nerf Bofors (now it doesn't lock AEC, it can get normal DPS now).
But:
To compensate some nerfs:
- give Piat a high-explosive shell, all units with Piat can now use it as passive rife grande on target.
- 5th men upgrade should be squad-upgrade. (Like overworked Sturmgrenadiers)
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US arty units are all kind of broken.
Mortar? ok
Howitzer? ...ok
Mortar halftrack? ...uff
M8A1 Howitzer? ...no words
All over all, it is borken.
1. For me, the mortar halftrack should be removed for US and get a UK unit. M8A1 Howitzer replaces it in commanders.
2. normal US mortar gets phosphor, but nerf it. e.g. remove the shooting blocker ability.
Mortar and Howitzer are enough, they don't need more stock units.
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Still, for me it is a problem of outrange and counter problems.
PaKs outrange tanks and tank-hunters... or not.
I wrote about that some years ago and it is still a thing.
- Panther, Jackson and Firefly should have 55-60 range.
- SU85 and Jagdpanzer4 should have range 60.
- StuG should have range 50.
- PaK40 should have range 62,5 (Ostheer should get option to destroy objects like UK)
- Zis etc. 60 range.
Jagdtiger, Elefant and ISU should get a range nerf too.
I would also like if PaK43 gets an emplacement and can't shoot through hit-blockers anymore.
With that changes it would be possible to counter heavies like all other fractions. By outranging them.
Edit: To be clear, it shouldn't be possible to push with a heavy while using tank-hunters in save distance.
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