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russian armor

Small change to brittish hammer tactics

22 May 2019, 02:05 AM
#41
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053


The pit now functions like a mini (and much cheaper) static howitzer but people can't be bothered to put the micro in to barrage because they are so used to the pit playing itself. Same "issue" with the pak howi. Great and devistating barrage but nobody wants to put in micro anymore.

Change the garrison bonus to slightly increased barrage range when garrisoned and add increased barrage range instead of durability in the pits vet and it won't be an issue. Hell, add the pit barrage into the flares as well to make em a bit more attractive. The short auto fire lends itself to taking away the micro on defense but there ain't nothing wrong it needing barrage for offensive operations.

But straight up a non doc sexton is literally the last thing this game needs.

I don't like pits because they get countered by indirect. Literally the thing they are supposed to counter. They're also pretty easy to destroy with pretty much any weapon and you can't put them wayyy far back like howitzers.

Artillery flares on more units does not address the fact you have to get into flare throwing range to drop it and stay there long enough to fling the stick

It does not bring smoke

It has no way to gain veterancy and improve with use and preservation

It has a single cooldown timer so there is no way to ever invest more to bring more than one piece of indirect


At least putting it onto the 81mm would help, but that's hardly going to address the fundemental flaws in the UKF toolkit.

Sexton would regardless be a bad idea and wouldn't even be relevant at all in most stages of the game except very late anyway.


The idea of having commandos with arty flares intrigues me actually. Especially since they can actually get close enough to use them. Flares on the mortar sounds interesting too.
22 May 2019, 05:27 AM
#42
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

Pretty sure that was the preview that was trashed because it had a really low approval rating from the community, based on polls (read: not universally loved).


There was one preview where the patch was trashed entirely, and another preview where they took a massive cut out of like half of the changes all at once, but still proceeded to have a patch. I don't remember either one of them having anything to do with a poll

I think the pit changes were in the one that got scrapped altogether but i could be wrong
22 May 2019, 11:18 AM
#43
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279


I don't like pits because they get countered by indirect. Literally the thing they are supposed to counter. They're also pretty easy to destroy with pretty much any weapon and you can't put them wayyy far back like howitzers.



Again, they ideally should be far enough back that enemy mortars have to be on your front line to be attacking the pit. It's primary use should be barrage, not auto fire. Furthermore the range issue is why I suggested increased barrage range with a garrison. You get the extra oomph while still allowing the pit to be manageable to play against.
22 May 2019, 11:55 AM
#44
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Emplacements simply need an overhaul.

That could include:
1) Being redesigned and anvil providing bonuses that could include price reduction pop reduction durability and other bonus.

2)Emplacement being built as garrison building and having to buy a crew. The crew could disembark the emplacement and survive.

This changes aim in splitting the cost to emplacement and the crew so that the investment and performance can be better balanced.
22 May 2019, 12:44 PM
#45
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1

If the solution to the mortar pit problem is a four man squad of royal engineers with awful damage that build their own pit and can bail out of it, fine. So long as the sodding thing can vet up, pack up, and move

Static is the part that makes then awful.
22 May 2019, 14:02 PM
#46
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

If the solution to the mortar pit problem is a four man squad of royal engineers with awful damage that build their own pit and can bail out of it, fine. So long as the sodding thing can vet up, pack up, and move

Static is the part that makes then awful.

No the suggestion is a separate crew unit that they are only able to use the emplacement.

The emplacement it self will not be able to be pack up but will serve as garrison.

Creeping emplacements is really problematic strategy that should not become available.
23 May 2019, 07:04 AM
#47
avatar of PanzerFutz

Posts: 97

I'm not sure there's any way to comprehensively address the issue raised by Box without redesigning the UK faction from the ground up. However, the Hammer Upgrade could be improved without too much work. It might look something like this:

Hammer Upgrade:

Gammon Bomb replaced by Hammer Assault Package
- Gammon Bomb for Infantry Sections
- Smoke Grenade for Sappers
- Artillery Flare for Tank Commanders

This would generally improve the ability of the UK to fight offensively once the Hammer upgrade is chosen.

Also, given that the Mortar Pit is the only emplacement that doesn't have a garrison upgrade, I'd like to run with thedarkarmadillo's idea and include it as a global addition to the faction.

Mortar Pit Garrison Upgrade:

Barrage Supercharge
- Barrage range +50% when garrisoned

This would allow a player to trade the combat value of an infantry unit (probably a sapper squad) for the combat value of having a significantly greater barrage range for the mortar pit.

These ideas don't fix everything but, they do improve the faction in a way which requires minimal changes.
23 May 2019, 08:00 AM
#48
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

Brits have so many problems and they also have many op things too.

For me the hole locking system has to be removed, so you can build AEC and bofors. Also Churchill and Comet.

Instead of Hammer and Anvil there should only be one small upgrade to allow building Firefly. The gammon-bomb, Schrapnell-Arty, etc. should be extra upgrades.

Beside:
- Nerf british grenade (it has no min. range, also can be used under red suppression)
- Nerf Vickers (give it Maxim's DPS)
- Nerf Bofors (now it doesn't lock AEC, it can get normal DPS now).

But:
To compensate some nerfs:
- give Piat a high-explosive shell, all units with Piat can now use it as passive rife grande on target.
- 5th men upgrade should be squad-upgrade. (Like overworked Sturmgrenadiers)





23 May 2019, 09:04 AM
#49
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 563

Brits have so many problems and they also have many op things too.

For me the hole locking system has to be removed, so you can build AEC and bofors. Also Churchill and Comet.

Instead of Hammer and Anvil there should only be one small upgrade to allow building Firefly. The gammon-bomb, Schrapnell-Arty, etc. should be extra upgrades.

Beside:
- Nerf british grenade (it has no min. range, also can be used under red suppression)
- Nerf Vickers (give it Maxim's DPS)
- Nerf Bofors (now it doesn't lock AEC, it can get normal DPS now).

But:
To compensate some nerfs:
- give Piat a high-explosive shell, all units with Piat can now use it as passive rife grande on target.
- 5th men upgrade should be squad-upgrade. (Like overworked Sturmgrenadiers)

Why would vickers need nerfs? Its suppression is not that great and it has quite bad veterancy. Its only real benefit is its damage but that is kinda it



23 May 2019, 10:01 AM
#50
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392



For damage you have Tommies, the real problem is the early versus OKW. For that you don't need a MG on steroids breakibg the game.

You ever used a Vickerd as Ostheer? It will be dooms-day.

There has to be a better solution. After PnzGrend arrive earlier I think UK-Pios could be instant 5-men troups. Everything is better than MG meter.
24 May 2019, 04:41 AM
#51
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

jump backJump back to quoted post22 May 2019, 11:55 AMVipper
Emplacements simply need an overhaul.

That could include:
1) Being redesigned and anvil providing bonuses that could include price reduction pop reduction durability and other bonus.

2)Emplacement being built as garrison building and having to buy a crew. The crew could disembark the emplacement and survive.

This changes aim in splitting the cost to emplacement and the crew so that the investment and performance can be better balanced.

The crew idea is IMO much more interesting. To give credit where it's due, Asoldier's been touting this mechanic for years (in the form of planetsmasher's mod IIRC) for good reason since it's much more in line with how this game is supposed to work in the first place. Actually has a sense of preservation and mobility while also being less frustrating to play against (I think) than current emplacements.



For damage you have Tommies, the real problem is the early versus OKW. For that you don't need a MG on steroids breakibg the game.

You ever used a Vickerd as Ostheer? It will be dooms-day.

There has to be a better solution. After PnzGrend arrive earlier I think UK-Pios could be instant 5-men troups. Everything is better than MG meter.

I would much rather have an mg42 than a vickers on any day in any given situation (except countersniping kappa). I don't at all get how the vickers is better than the 42. I'd much rather have good suppression than slightly better damage, and the mg42 can use AP incendiary and wreck anything up to AA halftracks too.
24 May 2019, 08:38 AM
#52
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

Fix emplacement will take a lot of work for sure.
For now, i suggest Give UC a smoke discharger so brit can be less depend on pit for smoke.
24 May 2019, 10:12 AM
#53
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

Commandos having a arty flare is a great idea.

It gives the unit a bit of life in teamgames when their "ambush" utility is kind of hopeless vs massive roaming blobs.

At least with a flare you could sneak behind enemy lines and sabotage Howitzers etc.
24 May 2019, 10:15 AM
#54
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1

Commandos having a recon flare is a great idea.

It gives the unit a bit of life in teamgames when their "ambush" utility is kind of hopeless vs massive roaming blobs.

At least with a flare you could sneak behind enemy lines and sabotage Howitzers etc.


Commando Glider + Flare is the most expensive and complex way ever to remove a back line arty piece, but so long as it works...
25 May 2019, 05:51 AM
#55
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



Commando Glider + Flare is the most expensive and complex way ever to remove a back line arty piece, but so long as it works...

Better than using 250 muni or whatever for air supremacy just to off an lefh lol.
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