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I think actually, panther needs only some more Penetration so it could counter heavy armour more effectively, right now with the cost of the panther and its performance vs heavies, its just not efficient enough like how TD's are to other tanks. |
Except Falls are CP2 compared to CP3 Paras and OKW can build Kubel which is okayish in early game as it doesn't bleed you and once it dies you can replace it with real infantry, it pays for itself, so you can more or less stall for Falls. You can't stall for Paras, because any unit you build by the time Paras are available will bleed you MP. Also Sturpio is actually a competent squad to fight with in the early game compared to RE, so you can get away with less mainline squads in the first few minutes of the game. Of course it depends on the faction matchup as it may be tough vs brits. Talking from 2v2 perspective. In larger teamgames you can also partially rely on your teammates for the first 5 minutes before you get your first squad of Falls.
You make it sound like there is no AI performance difference between Sections/Rifles and Falls.
I like how you can fit more doctrinal infantry in your build order, I just don't like how strong Falls have become with the ROF, medium range and other changes they have been put through.
paras come in at 3cp, because once they get upgraded they become THE best anti AI inf in the game with 6 man and LMG's. Yet even though they are so powerful you don't see them much, because of USF and its free officers thus the difficulty in fitting them in. the point your trying to make is something i already said about paras, can you not read what i said properly earlier? AND where did i say sections/rifles and falls have the same AI? stop putting words in my mouth, you clearly said a blob of falls can not be stopped by MG, and i merely pointed out, other blobs can do the same. falls were buffed for a reason, and they were initially OP, and ther stats got nerfed and Faust removed later.
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Please, no. Keep some squads unique, enough of this +2 cool weapons mainstream already.
Also only reason why Falls were fiddled with in the first place is because some people didn't prefer them over Obers and the intention was to make Luftwaffe Ground Forces more appealing. You usually don't pick elite infantry doctrine if you already have the best elite infantry stock. Imho, the doctrine should have just received something else extra (like tank commander upgrade or ostwind) instead of making falls 10/10 infantry murderer that makes infantry gameplay obsolete, because no MG or green cover position can win you a fight vs Falls-blob. Imagine being able to fit 3 LMG Paratroopers into a build order - it's this kind of infantry play tactical depth in a real time strategy game.
the reason you cant fit 3 paratroopers is because of riflemen being mixed with free squads which you get when u tech and you dont have a choice in getting them. If okw got free squads while teching, it would be impossible to fix 3 falls too.
Any blob of inf will walk through MG's, not just falls. They dont make inf obsolete, it just means you need to upgrade your main line inf with bars, lmg or brens if your UKF |
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why ppl want to nerf them? Falls are a doctrine locked elite infantry unit (hence why the Faust got removed) as they are supposed to be specialised anti inf unit and a great alternative to obers. Volks cant stand on ther own vs allied inf and need anti AI units like falls in support. they are also very squishy due to 4 man and lose 25% of dps when a model gets dropped |
Hi guys,
I agree with Protos Angelus that discussing a kubel flanking and losing to a maxim crew is something of low value, since there will be a CE or conscript nearby to pressure the kubel, if we want to compare same pop density which is more appropriate (ie a suppressed volks+ flanking kubel vs maxim+cons). Personally I find the kubel more of a burden as the game progresses, as you will always be one infantry squad behind. Of course it has it's use as early support/pressure.
I also think OKW is weak to mg openers on laney maps, where an mg and a couple infantry squads behind sandbags can shut down most flanking attempts. Compared to let's say USF which has heavy infantry presence (esp with free officer) and very fast access to smoke, OKW is much slower to access anti garrison. I believe the proposed tech changes will solve each and every early game problem of OKW, as a much more accessible BGHQ will make a fast combined arms strat possible. Similar to how the USF tech tree helped the faction a lot against lockdowns.
agree, i too hope the tech changes make it through but alot of good changes tend to get vetoed by certain members of the balance team. |
Hmm. Seems he did. I guess I own him an apology on that. However the rest imo stands. Flanking is extremely viable and the kuble punches above its weight in both combat (especially the lack of bleed) and capping power.
umm, seems like u guys have gone a bit all over the place with this one but no way in hell is a kubel a good counter to mg's lol, in fact its terrible. if its a 1v1, all the maxim has to do is turn, so either the kubel can stay and die or try and change position which doing so it stops firing , while the maxim crew continues to damage it. But i highly doubt anyone goes for a kubel to counter mgs. (maybe x2 kubels can work)
As you have mentioned thedarkamillo, i do agree kubel has great capping power but no way in hell do i consider it to punch above its weight, its combat isn't as good as other mounted guns and has terrible scaling, I have no idea how that is considered punching above its weight. If the kubel is considered to punch above its weight, i wonder what does the make the WC51 |
OKW struggle hard vs mg spam, since they have no early anti MG mechanic...unless u think flanking is a viable mechanic. A smart enemy will deny this flanking try hard.
A mg, sniper, mortar, lv is a anti MG mechanic....but even a fu*** mg crew kill alone a kubel
i would rather play vs MG spam, then deal with hoards of penals and clown car, which i think is way worse. |
It can still be made basically useless but still there. Less effective but there would be easier to balance than all in on durability give it low traverse speed and rof but something is better than nothing.
Hell even JUST a smoke shell would be better than nothing. Spread out its utility because a 140fuel rocket arty damn well needs to be good some how and if anything above a 2cm is going to pen it and kill it in 2 shots it better nuke everything in its barrage area-but that's not feasible by any means...
Its kinda like the isu balancing to me. People bitch and moan about the AP shells but it keeps the cost up and the AI down because it has more to flesh out the cost than just AI. if the calliope can bring more than JUST the barrage then it is easier to justify its cost. There are many metrics that CAN be applied if we widen the scope beyond its durability, barrage power and its price because the odds of all 3 being balanced and attractive are slim.
or one can just nerf it and make it non doc and finally give USF non doc arty. This will also mean, OP units like the pak howie can be adjusted again. |
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Ok, this may be considered a bit of rant but I think its very true when it comes to team games. I noticed as axis, the early game is a complete struggle in team games. when volks and grens have to go up against, riflemen, Infantry sections and/or penals, its a complete mis match and my team just gets completely steam rolled in the first 5-10 minutes. The only time I've managed to stem the tide is with the ostheer mg42 play, but even then thers only so much it can do. I simply do not know what to do, especially as OKW. Previously, you could outspam the enemy with volks, but after the nerfs you cant, you either have the same amount of inferior inf or less.
Now idm how riflemen are, since they have no access to early MG but there is no reason for IS to the way that they are, completely annihilating axis inf at all ranges. For people that play axis in team games (i'm talking 3s and 4s) what is that you can reliably do in the early game?
Before, some bafoon comes in and says its team games who cares blabla, most of the playerbase plays it and many changes have been in patches to compliment team games. I've put this in balance because I believe its a balance issue. |
It worked for me plenty of times. Raketen + MG into luchs with volks vs brits usually netted me a win mid game and a loss early game (hence capping points and avoiding fights). Almost all the time it was vs UC + AEC hence the raketen. I especially didn't have a hard time at all vs IS spam into AEC. Truth be told, those custom games were vs rank 500 3v3 Brit players which are MEH at best.
Truth be told x2, I do not know if that would work in high ranking games, but for me it worked. And 2v2 LeiGs worked best(as you have said), but I seldom tried to find the ranks of the people I played against/with so that part is questionable.
lol u serious right now?. u have a grand total of 0 okw games in automatch and u tell them how to play okw? |
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