A Panther should be able to kill Pershing. The problem is not Panther killing a Pershing, the problem is it requiring 0 micro (you can put Panther 1v1 in front of a pershing) because Pershing is really weak in defensive stats while not offering much in offensive (ROF and AI capability). If Pershing had the older AI power, then by all regards it can stay weak defensively cause it has the offensive. Right now it feels like a mediocre premium medium, not a heavy tank (Eg. if USF had Comet in the roster, I'd always choose it over Pershing). Jackson can kill a Tiger but you will constantly need to micro it to avoid the tiger closing in. Panther kills the Pershing by coming to it and saying "you want some mate?". Jackson kills the Tiger by saying "Stay there away from me". It's all legit. Doesn't make Panther, nor the Jackson, OP. Pershing needs either a buff to AI or a buff to armour/HP. Or something else. It's vet1 and vet2 are piss poor so you could also figure something out there. Don't know. I'd let the more experienced people that put out patches figure it out
what? so the panther SHOULDNT be able to 1v1 the perishing??? I'm confused, if the panther cant beat the perishing 1v1, you saying the perishing should win then? that would make the perishing incredibly OP as a panther is considered its counter. if you want the panther to do what the Jackson does to the tiger, then you OK with giving the panther 60 range?
secondly, the perishing does have excellent AI power, very good penetration above average armour and 960HP . |
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ostruppen is only viable in 1v1 early game, they drop off hard in mid to late game and completely suck at all stages in team games. The problem is and will always be sh!ty 4 man grens, hence why every 1v1 ost player is crutching on ostruppen or 5 man grens |
I would agree with the point that everyone on the side of the discussion that using EHP as a statistic is only viable if used directly to compare against other units in game-play situations, basically exactly as Hannibal and Pip say. EHP on its own doesn't make sense, e.g. Vipper says that commandos have great EHP overall presented as fact but he is generally wrong ; That number is as it is only valid within a very specific given context of play and compared directly against others within given limitations. The value only make sense when compared directly with something, and not just on its own - Otherwise it is a value which can be very misleading!
wtf are u talking about? commandos do generally have great EHP. honestly u seem to stalk and say the opposite of whatever vipper says and you keep playing around with words trying to sound smart, no u fked up and your wrong. Regarding commandos i really do like the smoke on retreat as it is unique and not necessarily OP, so nerfs needed regarding that |
If they come out that early, they can easily farm veterancy. Ober squads in green cover are not easy to dislodge, and the 4x K98s are deceptively powerful. In team games this would be a nightmare. Also, the Blendkorper 2H is a veterancy ability and not a tech ability, and I like it that way to keep things unique.
have u not played vs UKF? xD
many mainline inf is difficult to dislodge in cover mate |
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sounds like a good idea but should be tested first |
As I have already pointed out, Panther is faster than the Pershing and is stock for both axis factions. And it has blitz. The speed "advantage" really isn't that special
Are you blind? I literally said they can nerf the speed if necessary.
I'm aware of what the changes were, it should've just got the health buff. 800 health for a 230 fuel vehicle was absurd, it didn't need to lose armor in ezchange
u 1st compared it to other heavies, when talking about its armour and HP, now u wna go compare with the panther because of its speed (remind me how good AI on the panther is), ur cherry picking different units to justify buffing 1 unit.
out of all heavies u want it to have the best AI, very good AT, 960 HP 300 armour and very high speed? yh, hell no.
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The IS2 has 340 armor and 1040 health, so that's not a good reason. Yes the is2 is slower, but it's mobility is still plenty good enough for a heavy and that protection is much more reliable
I'm only asking to give back 300 armor on Pershing, with 960 health. If it needs a slight mobility nerf that's fine, but I don't think it would need to be much
The panther is it's counter. You should compare it to the other 230 fuel heavies, which are all good against infantry as well. And the pershing really isn't that much better than them at AI anymore
and that's precisely why is2 is powerful vs Axis, because of its health and armour however, its let down by its speed where as perishing can get out of danger fast. you seem to want the best of both worlds, it got 960 health from 800, so its armour could go down. |
I don't think it's negligible either, I'm just saying it's not enough to justify the Pershing having lower health AND armor. One of the reasons it's not enough is because blitz is on a large number of axis tanks
The speed is very useful at making the Pershing contribute all over the map. But in big armor battles it gets scared off/killed too easily for it's price imo
because both axis factions generally struggle more vs high armour/health units as they don't have access to high pen/60 range TD's.
all 3 allied factions have non doc high pen, 60 range TD's |
Pershing is a glorified Comet. It used to be good vs blobs and put fear in enemy infantry but that was offset by the fact that Stug/JP4/Pak can easily scare it away and Panther can 1v1 it easily with superior ROF.
Of all the heavy tanks that were nerfed, Pershing was hit the hardest cause it was never a durable heavy like Tiger or IS2, nor was it fast like the Panther (since it has the durability of a Panther). It was great at AI but that was toned down a lot.
Tiger is still the best heavy tank, even though it was nerfed. It's no longer a one man army like it was before but it's still bread and butter of All-round killer.
Tiger got hit the hardest with nerfs.
the thing with pershing is, its difficult to fit into usf build as they already have powerful options for AI and AT, if you need anti AI, you some of the best main line inf in the game, HE shermans, pack .50cal etc and if you need AT, you have Jackson, the best tank destroyer in the game. Its just not worth going for it when the other options are more reliable.
if the perishing, had something like alot more HP and could become a meat shield, then i can see it have uses and give something USF does not usually have. it just doesn't bring something USF needs on the table. |
The Purrshing used to be a bootleg Heavy but it was extremely lethal to infantry, now it costs more and deals way less consistent damage than 2 HE Shermans, Those two Mediums will do a much better job killing infantry, while having vehicle crews, cheaper smoke than the one HC Commander has and having .50s cals upgrades on top.
I'd just happily remove it from my loadout for another Commander.
srsly ur going to compare the pershing to 2 HE shermans?, damn right 2 HE shermans will be better then the pershing at AI otherwise the pershing will be batsht OP. Its AI was way to good for a single tank and rightfully nerfed along with other heavies. Like the tiger it isnt supposed to be 1 man army and needs to be supported.
It also has high health, good AT, good armour + better AI then most heavies and excellent speed. |
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