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but........
how often does an opponent build a pak43 in a place where the opponent can really make use of it... and it's like the old elephant where i can shoot through everything...
17 pounder takes up a lot of room. If you're going to give it an increase of 50% pop cap, i demand that it also gets to shoot through everything. |
He has a point. USF blobs can be very effective (3 rifles with double LMGs with officier) if backed up by 1-2 ATGs. Could be as bad as shreck blobs.
But still, 7 rifles and 3 Jacks?? This smells like bs.
Disagree, how much MP is that? 3 rifles, 1 officer, 2 ATGs is about 900-1000 MP with 6 lmgs... 420 munitions.
There's a lot more MP bleed in the USF build and more risk with support weapons being salvaged and flanked.
A good Axis player will use mortars or Stuka/arty once engaged with them, a vehicle to flank ATGs, or a sturmtiger.
USF counter to blobs is... blob more with + .50 cal, howitzer (risky), mobile howitzer with heavy micro and hope it hits and doesn't get one-shotted by shrek blob.
If somehow they manage to lose a portion of their shrek blob, they can hold ground with their heavies and forward HQs while reinforcing it
It is easy to see who has the clear blob advantage. |
you are my man dude!  it is quite entertaining as obviously many of you think games are won by this simple salvage.It is debatable whether the ability should be removed or not, but as long as in the core functions, not all groups are equal (all able to build caches), every effort trying to justify the comparison is irrelevant.
you want to make serious advice? then you have to take the "cache's build for all"- argument at first, and then you may discuss whats forgotten to adjust and not
Please... you have a sub-par win rate of 30% average and low as 10%
You obviously don't micro manage your forces and probably lose every squad you build.
For others, it is not so much the fact that OKW gets resources from salvaging vehicles, it's the fact that they could deny usage of dropped support weapons.
When OKW was first released (and OP), I was frustrated that at T2 Soviet, if i lost any support weapon, it could not get recrewed because it'd just get salvaged. As many other users have mentioned, Axis usually has to make a choice to crew a weapon team and lose a whole squad if they had less than 4 models.
Solution, let them continue to salvage but vehicles only or just give them caches. I don't mind. Maybe they'll spam less volks if they can spend MP elsewhere. |
Well, since x2 LMG rifles are mostly like Obersts in terms of AI, they simply could focus your AI squads aswell, and due to fact that both falls\obersts\jaegers (except for fusiliers) have 4 men squads, he will put down you much quicker and you usually wont do enough damage to them to let volks\pios\anyone else to finish them off, after you retreated your AI units.
And MG always can be smoked\focused and later on be killed by Prist\Caliope.
You are imagening situation where OKW already have at least 2 HQs builded + some sort of armor, which is hardly possible until like ~12-13 mins of the game. I only cant get one thing, why in your excample USF player dont have anything but rifles?
I'm not saying that rifles can take off tanks, but inf - for sure. And you cant really compare MG34 to Rifle LMG, simply because first one is basically core unit placed in 2 commanders, which is design fail. Even rifles with bars (and without bars aswell) can deliver a huge punch to OKW, if there are no obers runing around.
While MG34 is usually "must have", LMGs just a thing, which makes your rifles even better against OKW.
Also if USF player isn't complete idiot, he will go for Captain + AT gun. It will allow you to deny both Flak AND P2 without any single problem.
Sure in 4v4 it maybe much more easy to handle LMG blobs, because of the map size and fact that there are always teammate around and your front line is MUCH smaller then in 2v2. Go to 2v2 and try to counter LMG blobs here, its such pain in the ass that its not even funny. Also about flanking caliope\prist, its totally depends on map, flanking\rushing is not always possible, so you cant say "hurr flank it, problem solved".
And before you say "Well you could use Stuka and wipe things", ask yourself "Am I such a scrub to blob all my LMG rifles in one place", your stats are pretty good, so I think the answer will be "No". And here the problem. Good players, with LMG blobs, wont die to Stuka, they will avoid it most of the time simply by spreading around their rifles, but its still blob. Amount of afford from one player is significantly lower then from other, this is the main reason why everyone hates blobs.
We could go deeper in "theory crafting", but there is NOTHING OKW can do to LMG blobs, without proper answer from USF players. Its not like Ost vs USF where delayed PaK could mean pretty much GG for Ost.
Main question is why USF inf should be on pair with Obersoldaten in terms on DPS with x2 LMG. Is it so necessary?
Okay so you're assuming the Allies player is good. Why don't we assume the Axis player is good too!
He can get out a luchs or flaktrak in 6 minutes... 1 captain can be kited easily by luchs and he cannot cover the entire map. Around that time, how much munitions has he saved up? If you're talking about a rifle+m1919 blob... with smoke... and captain for AT... that's 85 fuel. munitions could probably buy around 3 m1919s if none were spent for the duration of the match. Now they have to have more if they want to throw grenades and smoke in combat.
I think it's very unfeasible for a rifle+lmg blob to be successful early game. Sure, it's strong late game when they've saved up so much munitions to fully upgrade all their squads, grenades, and manueverability. By late game, you should also be having tanks and/or artillery.
I'm also not sure on the timing but lmgs are locked behind 3 cp? i'm not sure how long that is but up to that point, they should be lagging. they're saving munitions for lmg right? so, no grenades should be used... or used very sparingly. In that case, you should be bleeding their MP pretty badly. kubel can be used to back cap enemy territory while all their infantry is busy somewhere else. I really think OKW is in a good place. Maybe you're right about units being limited to 1 lmg. In that case just make everything identical then. DP 28, m1919, mg42, mg34, every other lmg i missed should be the same. Same damage, same profile, same everything.
However that's not the case and I'm sure Axis players don't want to see allied factions with OP lmgs. artillery is not meant to destroy blobs completely but if you hit even just half of them... that's huge MP bleed. If you happen to squad wipe even 1 squad, that's 140 munitions.
I could be wrong but we'll see with the upcoming patch?  |
p4 should have same penetration as cromwell. Short dick sherman has more penetration than the long barreled p4. Which makes no goddamn sense.
Oh yeah! MG42 has armor penetration rounds with 7.92mm rounds but .50CAL can't penetrate vehicles with 12.7mm rounds that were designed to rip planes and vehicles to shreds. Same old story...
They're trying to create balance... not realism. Otherwise, we know which tank, which MG, which mortar is superior. |
well, axis "blob" is op and need to fix, ally blob is "learn to play" issue , this is ally player's logic.
playercard please.
If you're an allies player, you should be saying "l2p" too.
If you're an axis player, you shift blame to allies complaints.
I already know which side you're on. Give USF/UKF a panzerwerfer to handle axis blobs and I'll shut up.
Give Axis squadwiping artillery to handle blobs and I'll... wait... wait... they both already HAVE ONE that are BOTH non-doctrinal... mmmmmmmmmmm....mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... what can they be?
Stuka and panzerwerfer anyone? I'll sacrifice m1919 and partisans for a panzerwerfer. |
Hmm ... dont know. Which support weapons? MG34 which will be almost instantly dead under focus fire of LMG squads (not to mention that only 2 comms have it), or IGs which is nothing more but soft conter?
Or even more, if you go for IGs spam, sooner or later they will be destroyed by Prist\Caliope, leaving you harmless.
lone MG is a dead MG. Volks can build green defenses and tank/do damage.
If the enemy has time to get a calliope/priest, you have fuel to build a tank to flank it.
Stuka to squadwipe
P2 can kite/walk straight into infantry blob (if they have nothing but lmg since you think it's an issue)
P4 takes no damage from light arms.
IG spam... no one is telling you to be a noob and rely on spam tactics to win. 6 riflemen squads = 1680 MP and 1919 if you want double on all 6 squads = 840 muni....
1 ISG, 1 mg34 (if you have it), 2-3 volks behind cover, 1 obers (upgraded) can handle this no problem.
MG34 is doctrinal, 1919 is doctrinal. there are soooo many counters to USF blobbing and MP bleed from sustaining that large of a size. Flaktrak, p2, p4, Stuka... stop relying on blobs to win. Stop expecting your units to last all game "IGs spam, sooner or later they will be destroyed by Priest/Calliope"
Do you want all your units to be godly and have utility throughout the entire game?
Units have counters, use them. Micro, don't blob.
Give demo charges to all engineers to counter blob. I don't mind because I don't think most players will even use them because they just resort to blobbing instead of foresight and baiting. |
nerf aim time |
Ok guys, since you have a problem with the concept of balance as a whole compared with symmetry of faction, I would like to suggest that usf can no longer double wield any combination of weapons rack weapons... Because y'know it's totally unfair cos axis doesn't get that ability. Nerf nerf nerf!!! Oh and take away your smoke grenade too if you want okw to have a non flaming grenade. Oh and let's button down the ambulance so that it can't continue to move around the map healing usf units once it is originally set up. You guys make me laugh. You have no idea what a broader sense of balance means.
Troller alert!
playercard please |
This and the introduction of that T0 mortar they had planned for USF would help make the WFA factions more interesting and we'd see less of that unhealthy infantry-only playstyles with almost no weapon teams.
It's simple psychology. If there is other accessible options to infantry-heavy approaches more people will try and use these alternatives. What needs to be encouraged is a combined use of infantry and team weapons. This was always what made CoH great & gave it such a tactical feel.
+1 |
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