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Thread: KV-2 Vet 3 reload buff and siege mode7 Dec 2021, 14:33 PM Jump back to quoted post7 Dec 2021, 14:30 PMMMX Yeah, tested it with all tanks that currently deal deflection damage against a target with 10k armor. Definitely confirmed. Only weapons with an option to crit with deflection damage (via on_deflected_actions) can kill. Great work man nice to know. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: KV-2 Vet 3 reload buff and siege mode7 Dec 2021, 14:11 PM Jump back to quoted post7 Dec 2021, 14:04 PMMMX I should point out that the currently online version of the spreadsheet doesn't take into account that deflection damage cannot kill vehicles (unless it can crit, like Panzerschrecks or PIATs for example). In-game, any non-penetrating hit it will just drop the HP to zero and will require a pen hit for the tank to be destroyed. I'll post an updated version soon where this is properly modeled. Thanks for clearing that up. Are you sure that the deflection thing applies to all weapons? I was under the impression it applied only to certain AT snare. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: KV-2 Vet 3 reload buff and siege mode7 Dec 2021, 13:57 PM Jump back to quoted post7 Dec 2021, 12:51 PMHannibal This is a highly misleading presentation. While your numbers are correct, for example the chance of 4 penetrating shots in a row is less than 5%, given that all shots hit in the first place which is unlikely due to the comparatively low accuracy of the KV2. Comparing those two tanks in terms of AT makes no sense, the Panther is miles ahead, even without deflection damage. Misleading as to what? I didn't come to any conclusion, I simply brought up more parameters one should factor in. The chance to penetrate where already included. Is this "presentations" "highly misleading" also? "Regarding Kv2 vs Panther: Range: Panther trumps KV-2 here. Kv2 cannot even fight a panther at max range that is 50. Armor: Panther has a 73% chance of penetrating a Kv2 while Kv-2 has a 53% chance of penetrating a Panther which goes down to 49% when Panther hits vet3. So I guess in a Kv2 vs Panther fight, Panther will come out on top as you stated." As I have pointed out KV-2 does deflection damage and thus it need something between 4 penetrating shots and 8 deflections shots. According to MMX calculator (if I am using correctly) the Panther vs KV-2, KV-2 wining with 78.8 probability. (Stationary, at 40 range, vet 0, scatter efficiency 100%, 5.000 repetitions) (37.5T2K vs 66.4T2K) In: COH2 Balance
Thread: KV-2 Vet 3 reload buff and siege mode7 Dec 2021, 12:05 PM Jump back to quoted post7 Dec 2021, 12:01 PMSumi I dont know how are you guys fetching the reload speed but I got it from here: https://coh2.serealia.ca/. It says 9 reload duration for non siege mode and 10-12 for siege mode which would mean obviously the reload is slower in siege mode for some reason. This is what I based my issue on. That sight has calculated the ROF similar to other vehicles and has not factored in the 0.75 reload bonus in siege mod. If you are still skeptical you can test it in cheat mode and time it. The modifier make little sense since they could simply apply the desired reload. It probably a left over from an earlier version of the vehicle where the two modes would probably use the same weapon. I wouldn't worry about getting a stat wrong happens to everyone, the fact the you even bothered to check stats before posting is (or has become) admirable. Jump back to quoted post7 Dec 2021, 12:01 PMSumi Regarding Kv2 vs Panther: Range: Panther trumps KV-2 here. Kv2 cannot even fight a panther at max range that is 50. Armor: Panther has a 73% chance of penetrating a Kv2 while Kv-2 has a 53% chance of penetrating a Panther which goes down to 49% when Panther hits vet3. So I guess in a Kv2 vs Panther fight, Panther will come out on top as you stated. Kv2 is rather a dedicated anti infantry tank but it should be able to fend off attacks from panthers. Obviously it shouldnt destroy panther in a 1v1 but atleast deal enough damage to cancel the dives. I have to point out that: KV-2 does 240 damage so it need 4 penetrating shot to kill a panther,while the Panther needs 7 KV-2 does 120! deflection damage so it will damage a Panther even if it does not penetrate. KV-2 has 1040/1200 HP which is generally better than an armor bonus KV-2 at vet 2 matches the range of Panther at 50. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: KV-2 Vet 3 reload buff and siege mode7 Dec 2021, 12:01 PM Jump back to quoted post7 Dec 2021, 11:41 AMKatukov the kv-2 is really good, the gun takes a while to fire but the only, ONLY complaint you can have on the kv-2 is that it gets punished for siege mode, but the exact same ability (hulldown) in jaeger armor does not. You get ~5 seconds of wind down time when de-sieging and iirc a large received accuracy penalty, but the hulldown ability lets tanks instantly go mobile These ability are NOT "exactly the same" and actually their quite different: Ostheer: Name: "Hull Down" Duration: None Cost: Free -25% received damage. +25% weapon range. Vehicle can't move. KV-2 Name: "Firing Positions!" Duration: Toggle Ability Cost: Free +30 maximum range. (+75% weapon range) +25 minimum range. KV-2 is immobile in siege mode. One one is doctrinal ability taking up a slot and the other is ability always available to the specific unit. There is no "received accuracy penalty" it has been patched out around three years ago. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: KV-2 Vet 3 reload buff and siege mode7 Dec 2021, 09:07 AM Jump back to quoted post7 Dec 2021, 08:31 AMMMX ... These problem started with the "redesign" of that KV-2. KV-2 was designed as an assault/siege tank where in siege mod it would have superior fire power. It was meant to be weaker during transition. The "redesign" brought closer to other heavy tanks (to the point that now some people complain that it overlaps with IS-2) and made "siege mode" very situational where in most cases it is better to use "tank mode". Imo the issue has more to with minimum range and less with set up/hull down delay. KV-2 used to have longer range but when the max was reduced that minim range remained the same. That means that the KV-2 in siege mode will fire in range 25-70. I agree that the unit is a good spot and if was to change something it would be to return to its all design with a superior siege mode instead of its overlap with IS-2. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: KV-2 Vet 3 reload buff and siege mode7 Dec 2021, 07:39 AM Jump back to quoted post7 Dec 2021, 07:26 AMSumi ... The stat on KV-2 are probably inaccurate, KV-2 has weird reload bonus that applies in siege mode and ROF should be about equal on siege and Tank mode. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Upgunning the soviets - the IS-2 6 Dec 2021, 23:36 PM Jump back to quoted post6 Dec 2021, 23:07 PMKatukov and it still misses as the old is-2 did this is the only response i can give: ... It simply does not miss like it used to, check MMX's post and thread and tool. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Upgunning the soviets - the IS-2 6 Dec 2021, 21:55 PM Jump back to quoted post6 Dec 2021, 21:19 PMcomm_ash You know, except that it had actually garbage AI because it had terrible scatter and couldn't hit either tanks or infantry when it did fire... The issue wasn't the 240 damage and slow fire rate (in which case people would never use the ISU-152), but the accuracy/ scatter. ISU-152 is used for it extended range people would still use it if it did 160 damage and fired every 7 seconds. IS-2 does not need 240 damage with slower reload, nor does need a massive buff of 240 damage with it current reload. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Upgunning the soviets - the IS-2 6 Dec 2021, 17:37 PM Jump back to quoted post6 Dec 2021, 17:00 PMMMX fair enough and reasonable. i was, however, responding to the part that the tiger was allegedly way superior to the is-2 in terms of anti-infantry performance, not to the overall position of the is-2 in the soviet roster. there are obviously many reasons the is-2 sees little use, but i don't think a 240 dmg cannon will solve these (at least not without creating a bunch of new issues along the way). IS-2 used to have 240 damage with better AI and reload of 9 sec until 2014 and people did not like it. So they changed that with better AT gun/160 damage and 6.4 secs reload. In: COH2 Balance