It's just how the game is and how it's always been. Similar or the same weapon systems act differently in different roles for the sake of variety, balance and gameplay.
As another example, there are at least 8 different versions of the MG 42 with a wide variety of stats and effects.
There is difference in the same weapon having different DPS in the different units and similar weapons one using accuracy and using the point blank mechanism while the other AOE.
That is all difference that confuses the user, who needs to read the patch notes to be aware since this info is not actually available. All this happens for no good reason without adding anything to performance of the unit.
You want to change the way the tank's offensive armament works completely, I'd call that a pretty big overhaul. No one is going to know how such changes will make it perform and balancing that will take a long time. It would be so much easier to just work with what we got right now and slightly nudge it into the right direction so it goes from underwelming to decent/good.
It actually a pretty simple change since there units that it can be modeled around (Luch/Centaur) so you already have something to work with and simply adjusted for price. |
Name:
Disruption( of Enemy lines) Doctrine or Griffin Doctrineor Covert Operation Doctrine
Abilities:
1)
0CP - Radio Silence
more radical
SWS can now built the WC51 truck
or
CP 2-3 "Behind enemy lines training"
SWS can now built a conscript, a riflemen or a Tommy, has access to corresponding abilities.
The unit has a timed ability that allows to change colors to much enemy and become neutral for the duration, unit loses neutrality once an attack order is given, takes damage, it fired upon by enemy or time run out.
2)
CP 0-1 Special SWS Support trucks
HQ can now produce specialized SWS Trucks at cost of 150/10. These have less HP than normal SWS and can be set up faster than normal SWS Trucks using the base Model with different skins and lower HP/armor the normal trucks. Once set up then can upgrade to:
A) Command SWS, building gets sandbags around it (cost 100) can now reinforce units
Can be upgrade for 100/10 for extra HP armor
B) Hospital SWS, building gets red cross around it (cost 100/10-20 FU) can now heal
Can be upgrade for 100/10 for extra HP armor
C) Forward observation Point, building gets Antennas around it (cost 100-150). The building gets some the following abilities:
+20 LOS
Intercept, a timed ability cost 30 MU giving mini map information range 100(?) 1 minute duration and revealing hidden units in the same area.
Recon over flight, a timed ability cost 30 MU sending a high altitude reckon plane (can not be shot down) to circle the truck.]
Can be upgrade requiring second truck set for 100/20 for extra HP armor and for the following abilities.
Air support, a singe pass hmg strafe for 60 MU near set Up truck
Mortar support, an barrage for 80 MU near set Up truck
D) Logistic support, building now has barrel similar to Opels(cost 200-300)the weakest structure in HP and Armor building now works similar to cashes.
3)
CP 3 Anti tank Training
Either a specialized call in unit or VG can now upgrade with Panzerfaust for 90 MU that take all weapon slots while removing grenades. (Panzer faust ability is removed). The ability is toggle when it is activated the squad will produce and fire 2 Panzerfaust around every 7 seconds doing 80 damage, but will not snare. 2 weapons can appear with 1-2 sec difference.
Unit also have access to Panzerwurfmine a snare with range 15 that stuns vehicle and cause engine damage to protect from being pushed.
Alternatively:
Access to a redesigning version of Blendkörper as a AT tool that does not block vision but stuns Tank crews reducing speed and vision for vehicles being hit or traveling thru the smoke. One could actually add non lethal damage to USF crews.
4)
CP 3 Night fighting training
Unit can now upgrade their ST44 to Vamp for 20-30 Munition. All ST44 now gain +10% accuracy.
IR HT can stop the rotation of beam, unit caught in beam will suffer -10-20% cover bonus penalty when fired by Vamp ST-44.
Vehicles will 2-4 target size penalty when fire upon by IR Panther.
Panther can now upgrade with a Commander giving +10 LOS and increased accuracy vs vehicles under Beam
5)
CP 10 M10 Wolverine
The player can built the Wolverine from HQ after T4 is set UP at normal price or can call in the unit after CP 10 for 110-120 Fuel.
Possible Changes to other unis:
ST44 obers replaced in "special OP" maybe with camouflage upgrade similar to Ostheer (?)
IR HT replaced with the mortar HT in T2 or a Flame HT
Historic Basis:
The commander is inspired from Otto Skorzeny and operation Greif that took place in the Battle of the Bulge. It allows the support of SWS similar to Ostheer bunkers, to create confusion to the enemy, while uses captured vehicles (actually M10 where not used during the operation but Panther where disguised as M10s). It provides OKW with a balanced AT unit and a well design IR HT.
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Yeah but we have to remember what relic is actually willing to do here. 5 years in isn’t necessarily the time to make sweeping fundamental balance changes to commanders of every single faction in the game.
I do not actually see setting a "benchmark" or some "rules" in commanders design as "sweeping fundamental balance changes".
I simply see as guideline that will help in balance, in the revamp of commanders and in widening the meta.
The commanders with "combinations of OP abilities" are not too many actually.
The best solution for this commander would actually be to change the name . One could then redesign a new one that focus mostly on Riflemen. |
Sure, but this would require a massive overhaul -- there are a ton of commanders that grant upgunned tanks or heavy tanks and also an infantry upgrade.
Imo that is a necessary change that would help increase the meta allot more than simply revamping 2 commanders each time.
It would also help abilities individually since allot of them are problematic only because their available in strong combinations.
The current approach does not actually increase the commander available for meta, it simply replaces the 2-3 commander with new ones, since it basically over-buff certain units or abilities to make the commander more attractive.
Commander should follow a design that would make the total power of their abilities about equal to all others. |
I'm not against that idea, but I think the change would have to start with all the other infantry and that Rifle Company specifically seems like the ideal choice to buff Riflemen with field defenses and sandbags.
If Rifle company loses Ez8 and focus on buffs to riflemen that would makes sense but the combination of superior riflemen and superior armor should not be available in one commander. (that includes other faction and commander also also). |
Name:
Readiness Company (or Checkerboard Company or Battle Babies Company) (after the 99th "Readiness Division")or "Red big one" Company
Theme:
The USF army during the battle of bulge with emphasis on Rear Echelons.
Abilities:
1)
CP 0 M10 'Wolverine' Tank Destroyer
The M10 available as call in at 9 with a premium or build-able from T4 at normal price.
A more radical approach:
CP 4 Anti Aircraft defenses
R.E. can now built the Bofors.
The units has 2 fire modes AA and Ground and will engage airplanes only in AA mode.
2)
CP 0 "Tenacious defense"
R.E. can now hit the dirt. Ability gives damage reduction and immunity to suppression but it is timed.
3)
CP 2 "Rearm and refit"
R.E. can upgrade to gain an NCO (armed with a Thompson) become 5 men squad losing all weapon slots but armed with United States Rifle, cal .30, Model of 1917 (basically an Enflied). The can no longer built or repair, since they are now a fighting unit. (Weapon is about equal to VG K98)
Alternatively one of their weapon can now fire rifle-grenades.
more radical approach:
CP 3 "Promotion"
R.E. achieving vet 2 can return to base and promoted to USF elite units like assault engineers, Rangers, Paratroopers by the Company Command post. The mechanic might work by either moving the unit in the tend and the new unit appearing or by moving it outside the map.
4)
CP 2 "Close quarters antitank tactics"
R.E. can now use sticky bombs (AT grenades similar to Conscripts) and ATGs can now cloak. Cloak for ATG require the unit to be stationary (can rotate). R.E. now have access to "daisy chains" mines tactics. Their mines are now built in cluster similar to Ostheer minefield and will now have chance to cause engine damage if more that 1 is hit.
5)
CP 9 Indirect fire Support
A sector artillery support on owned sectors using mortar Shells for 120 MU without the need of LOS. The ability is defensively oriented cheap and comes early.
or
CP 8 P-47 Antitank strafe
A strafe can be called in where a P-47 will fire MG and rocket at designed path.
Other changes:
R.E. volley fire now is a vet 1 ability. The ability scale with veterancy where the penalties are gradually reduced. The ability does not have to aimed at target and can be used when in garrison.
R.E. Tanks trap are swapped for sandbags and move to assault engineers. They now take loner to built have smaller target size, provide yellow cover and can be dismantled by units equipped with mine sweepers.
Historic Basis:
The idea is to recreate the battle of bugle and especially Battle of Elsenborn Ridge the with rear echelons fighting to stop Axis advance. R.E. should be a big part of this commander and should be able to scale into late game with the extra member, hit the ground, AT snare and changes to Volley fire.
Rational:
Many patches and Commanders are based around OP units or abilities as their "selling" point. Imo Commander should focus more in getting more out of existing units than a "super unit/ability" that can be abused until it is nerfed. |
Imo "Rifleman field defenses" should not be so common (nor should be LMG for that matter).
Generally speaking mainline infantry should not be able to built cover (or should take way too long) that includes most infantries. (maybe not conscripts with out ppsh)
"Riflemen field defense" could allow fighting position and wire for riflemen and the rest should be move to R.E.
Possible abilities for riflemen could include a "hit the ground" ability or/and a weapon upgrade to Garand C (already in game) increasing long DPS or rifle grenade weapon.
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Thx for correcting. I was sure ive read that here.
Glad that I could be of help. |
Certain units do better vs kubel because of penetration. Rear echelons for example are pretty good because their rife has more penetration
RE do not have better penetration.
They simply have low accuracy vs infantry but they will always hit a kubel. |
If they're meant to be an Obersoldaten equivalent then they should have Obersoldaten timing.
Not really Obers come too late for what they are |