I don't find it hard to deal with when it is used defensivley, once it starts to push that is when my issues come.
More often than not in 3v3's that I play it is the first tank out from ost and it can come out pretty quick in those modes and as mediums dont reliably pen it, its free to roll around and cause utter chaos.
That is problem of mod and patch's direction of "rush to last tier mentality" and not the unit itself.
Playing agaisnt a brum I say that if it doesn't die or make a silly mistake such as hitting a mine, I lose the majority of the games that it appears in (Last I checked I was rank 16 random 3v3's but I lost like 8 games last night  ).
KT's, Eles, Jags, Tigers are all manageable but the Brum has serious impact that I can't deal with. Maybe I'm doing something wrong and the problem lies with me, if so that's fine I can accept that but I genuinely don't have issue with any other unit than the brum and no matter what I try I can't deal with it effectivley.
Regardless of if one can or can not deal with it effectively imo there is a problem with the design. It is very performance is very much "hit or miss" and that is why my suggestion is to lower AOE and increase projectile velocity. |
Lowering the speed would allow it to still do its job while requiring to pick the fights better. Speed is not as important during defense like during offense. A speed nerf would rather go towards the offense I think.
Yes that is my point , there is number of user complaining that Brumbar is difficult to deal when it used defensively (covering VPS) and speed nerf would have limited impact.
That is why I have suggested a change in AOE/projectile speed that would effect the unit both in offense and defense.
Overall I am not sure if the Brum needs changes. The balance changes two patches ago already put it into an okay spot. The main issue I see is that if you go for a medium as Allies and your opponent goes Brummbar, you're pretty much screwed. Especially as T1 Soviets.
Maybe it needs a very slightly increased fuel cost or so, but that's probably it.
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Imo a Brumbar should be able to push successfully when there no AT assets other than 2 M-42 AT that are out of position moving slowly because they are cloak.
105mm dozer would probably cause more havoc in similar situation. |
well if that doesn't raise any red flags due to swapping units from one faction to another, i'd say fallschirmjägers could be quite a good fit for either of the two luftwaffe-themed ostheer commanders, at least thematically. still, at the same time i can't see any good reason why OKW should not have them or why they should lose their parachutes and spawn from houses instead.
It is not my opinion that OKW should not have parachutist. Point has more to do with fact that Fall are 4 entities and not very well suited for aggressive paradrops.
USF paras are better since they have 6 entities, if one want to have paras for axis one should probably follow USF design and have increased squad size while scrapping the camo mechanics which is better suited for infiltration units. |
Well since its job is to dive in frontally, shoot and drive backwards in the same way, speed matters quite a bit. Acceleration is in line with other tanks as well.
And that is why I said that lowering its mobility would be a ill-advised change. It will further restrict the unit in being used defensively covering vps.
Imo acceleration matter more in this case. One can see that with Churchill that although slow it abnormally high acceleration (and good rotation) allows it to get in out of fight.
The Dozer has some other stats that are quite different, mostly armor and HP (plus some vet later on). The Brummbar also has higher speed and acceleration for less rotation rate.
Regardless of the Dozer, all I was saying is that the Brummbar really has decent mobility for a heavy vehicle. Especially since it gets better with vet.
The probable has more to do with combination of case-mate/sort range that make it clunky to move to position to fire than just the on mobility on its own.
(edited to add the Churchill example) |
If that is an indicator of "personal comments" then you are constantly attacking personally literally everyone who disagrees with you....
Pls Stop making personal non constructive comments (for the 4 time)
JohnSmith is correct, ST is clunky to maneuver around. Brummbar with its heavy crush, decent turning speed, acceleration and top speed is very maneuverable for a heavy unit.
Yes ST is more clunky and I have not claimed otherwise.
ST is clunky mostly because rotation speed and firing animation.
Most heavy units have heavy crush so it not a privilege of Brumbar.
A rotation of 24 bellow average thus not decent (Sturmtiger has 22 and Churchill 32).
But you are entitled to believe that it is " very maneuverable for a heavy unit"
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I think that volks just need an ability which would just punish cocky play against them, when they have StGs.
Somesort of focus fire, or steady aim, something to just prevent USF\UKF murderfucking them ignoring cover, range and pretty much everything if volks arent babysitted by something with AI capabilities or outmatching them at least 2 to 1.
Hell even, lock it behind battlegroup HQ.
I mean sure, more expensive inf, side grades and bla bla, but volks are the only inf in the game, who can be just bullied that bad and who dont even have their niche they are good at.
One could start with making ST44 taking up one weapon slot instead of 2.
I would also test adding a timed ability that allowed them to use their ST44 in full adding mid/close DPS at the expense of far DPS. |
The Brummbar has decent speed, especially if you consider that it still is a good HP/high armor unit.
Top speed is only one factor of a unit mobility even more so in the case of Case mates.
With out rotation and acceleration top speed does not say much.
Only it's rotation is lacking but for turretless vehicles still one of the best.
Stug-E/G both have superior rotation, mostly long range TD have worse rotation and they do not have to navigate the field to get in firing range. Another reason for it is possibly to make these TD more susceptible to flanks.
Generally speaking Brumbar does feel rather clunky to maneuver. It mobility I would say is inline with dozer 105 that even comes with turret. |
1- The tech timings is more or less related to p4 timing, the light vehicles (puma execpted) aren't very good, and making luchs come a bit later at the cost of being able to choose between a stronger early LV game (with luchs having increased cost+ performance) or an earlier medium is far more interesting than the binary of either going puma,luchs or puma but ultimatetly regardaless of having picked between either choice your medium/heavy (ie p4 or cmd panther) will still arrive extremely late.
I have nowhere indicated that obers need to be nerfed. Rather that volks need to be buffed because obers while decent enough, require a lot of investments to be worthwhile and having more than 1 is more of a detriment than a boon in my experience.
Edit: The soviet change was also an extreme buff, having t70 come out at 7 minutes consistently while retaining a very large part of its firepower makes its an auto pick no matter what and combined with certain doctrines (guards or svt cons) becomes oppressive as all hell.
Edit edit: Also just realized the rifle nade AT change for usf and decreased timing of m20 has also made it busted.
Imo the problem has to do with how early light vehicles/light tanks arrive and not the timing of OKW vehicles. It is time to stop buffing and make unit arrive earlier and delay/nerf thing instead.
A problem with T2 timing imo has more to do with the delayed faust if one chooses T2 than anything else. That can easily be solved by making T1-T2 truck fuel cost the same and adding a second unlock for vehicles in T2 with the added bonus of allowing more tools to balance OKW vehicles timing. |
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My input is, since writing is your strength, not reading, 5 man grens are balanced now for their timing.
If that is the point you want contribute to this thread, may I suggest that you start with that instead of starting on how much BAR riflemen cost, a subject that has been debated extensively in a thread specifically about it.
Pls avoid personal comments that not constructive (for a third time)
You want to see them being stronger again? Then delay them.
I have not made any suggestions about 5 men grenadier to be stronger or weaker.
What you are proposing would not work because, if one delays the 5 men grenadier upgrade, it would become rather pointless because players would probably be forced to upgrade with mgs just to survive. |
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