Profile of Vipper

1- Because messing with conscripts is not gonna bring more issues and QQ than what we have now with Penals. Conscripts are deemed weak but they are still been built on a 2:1 ratio against Penals/Maxims. Problem of the later, is not how the unit should/could perform but rather spammability.

2- Sorry but that's ineffective as you are playing with 1 less squad and you have constant pop been occupied doing nothing.

3- Sorry to burst your bubble but too many things have changed since September 2014 and no longer hold true. IS doesn't beat Volks/Grens at all ranges if they are in cover? Volks against conscripts? Rifles against gren? I'm not talking about cost effectiveness but you can't expect to beat 1v1 something which have a cost disparity.
Also Penals are NOT CORE INFANTRY and shouldn't been.

PD: again, stop bringing merge as the SU savior tool because it makes your point look like a joke. You are just gonna convert on Nullist 2.0 (older users might remember). Merge hasn't been an issue on 2013 nor it will be in 2017.

1)Making conscripts defensive infantry will not create any problem instead it solves allot. Again units need different roles and utility to have a place in the build order. Else one will be used over the other. And that is how Ostheer work Pgs offensive Gren defensive...

2)Try it you might find that it not, 2 conscript have a POP of 2 and allow other infantry to return to the battlefield in matter of seconds...Actually not having conscript to merge to Penals or Guards is an inefficient way to play...

3)IS weakness is out of cover and on the move they are also weak vs mid sort units Penal are not.In addition Soviet and Ostheer are far better designed than UKF and it should be UKF that change toward them and not the other way around. In addition IS sue the same type of weapon bolt action so it make more sense that unit equipped with the same type of perform according to their price..

Infantry relationship have changed less than you think from September patch (rifles vs grens and vols vs cons remain mostly same for the first minutes of the game) but that is not the point. In that patch unit where balanced against each other not in the void, and that is correct way to do it.

If the issue of Penal is cost lower the cost...

They may not been the "mainline infantry" but they are core infantry and they will belong as they a large part of a Soviet army. They probably become a even larger part of the Soviet army in the WBP. And they can be a large part of the army because the hit the field before minute 1...contrary to Pgs or other elite/semi elite infantry.

4) I did not claim merge to be an issue the ability is fine, I simply pointed out that increasing reinforcement time and cost for Penal has limited affect. The more you increase them more effective merge becomes...

1- Then instead of having to adjust a single unit, now you are messing with 2 units, changing their role, performance, balance against other units, etc. AND i'ts out of scope

2- Merge isn't equal to reinforce as you still have a squad which is gonna be low on models, conscript models are still gonna have RA, micro and cost opportunity. You won't always have conscripts along Penals. Every time merge has been mentioned as a balance issue, reality show us that it didn't made balance concern.

3- WTF has PG to do with Penals? At the moment they are more of Assault grens lite than PG. Increase build time/reinforce time to.
If wilds ideas have to be taken into account, you could also try making them a 5 model squad instead of 6.

1) If one wants both units to be used they have to adjust both, else only one of the will be built. Each units need to have something to bring to table, a different role or utility and ideally they perform better together. So a defensive conscripts and an offensive Penal seems to be a change to right direction.

2) The target size of conscripts 1.087 while the difference in cost and time is around 25% merge works. I always leave conscript with 2-1 models in base and use it to reinforce Penal when they retreat.

3) Penal according to the balancing team are modeled after Pg. They where also mirror units in the early stage of the game. They are both semi elite stock infantry.

Penal are nothing like assault Grenadiers, assault grenadier need to close to gain an advantage Penal will beat grenadier and VG at long and at any range. And that is one of their major issue, contrary to other core infantry they are not balanced in respect to enemy infantry as it was done in September 9th, 2014 patch for every core infantry...

I think the main reason why Penals are so difficult to balance/design properly comes down to trying to balance an "Elite" squad than can potentially come in the first 30 seconds due to non-linear teching.

That is why I have suggested to turn them into cheap reverse (offensive instead of defensive) osttruppen infantry.

If ones chooses the path of making powerful they need to be delayed like PGs. Maybe requiring a second building.

Shocks and Guards where a disaster when moved to Cp 1.

If WBP changes go thru Ostheer will be able to survive only if gren are T0 Pg T1 and Hmg T2....

I would like to see grenadiers' lmg, rifle nade, faust and panzer grenadiers' super grenade, double shrecks and volks' flame nade, faust and stgs and strumpioneers' shreck having side tech cost if penals' ptrs upgrade requires a side tech cost also.

They have a tech cost it is researching T2 or building truck 1.

If you prefer Ostheer should be able to built T2 T3 T$ without researching them and these "weapons" could come with the research of BP...similar for OKW cheaper truck and side grades...