This is how the conversation went. Guy asks what are brits best stock anti blob units. I suggest the centaur since itll be more effective without shrecks on volks (this was before it was moved to Spios). you respond that no centaur is easily countered by racketen and fausts. I say kite. you have a problem that i didnt setup a scenario for you? sorry mate. cant help you. I didnt quote you first, you quoted me
Actually, the guy stated that after this change to the Cromwell and generally all medium tanks, British anti-blob tools should be looked at, to which you agreed to, as do I, but the Centaur is not the only anti-blob unit(s) the British have, mortars are also nice, and a combination of a vet 1 garrisoned vickers and a Bofors are also solutions, albeit static, while I'm not so sure but the Centaur also doesn't have suppression so that, combined with the Volk's new found snare being the panzerfaust, while Storms having the Panzershreck, I'd say the Centaur would be in an even worse place than before faced against a blob, the only scenario where I see it actually winning without it getting snared or destroyed completely again a Panzershreck is when it's charging straight towards the lone unit/blob to move them around to prevent them from firing, and that's not even having the raketen or other (captured) AT guns added into the equation, especially on smaller maps which can means they could be moved around even more easily.
All in all I don't feel like arguing with you any more, once we start seeing more 1v1s after the patch goes live it will be obvious if Brit anti-blob tools will truly be needed to be looked at. |
I've noticed it quite often with other vehicles as well, not just tanks. |
Lower auto fire range massively, that way it must be microed.
How do you micro a static emplacement? If targetting the barrage ability is micro to you that means all ground attack abilities are micro as well, which it is not. |
a more simple solution is to just lower the auto fire range. you will still have the 115 meter barrage range to deal with camper, but the emplacement can't hold down a significant portion of the map.
What I'm trying to do here is balance things out by changing how they work or are obtained rather than buffing or nerfing their stats, plus that still isn't a solution to the more non-doc mobile in?direct fire question for more mobile and aggressive British players. |
Make it an upgrade mortar pit OR aec OR Bofors 
Add normal mortar.
So 3 upgrades to Tier 2? Alright then, I just hope the mobile mortar is worth it, but that could lead to some very awarding team games then, one goes for Bofors, while the other goes for mortar pits.
Edit: How about a 3rd upgrade to tier 3 then that just unlocks both of the special tanks but none of their specialization's bonuses? |
Alright so, I will try to cover both ends here so bare with me.
How about, Relic, or whoever is making the Balance preview, adds the 3-inch mortar to the Brits, using either the GrW 34 model or the 3-inch one from the mortar pit but with it's own, fully developed animations, and since I don't believe they'd do that (if they haven't already) just for a balance preview, looking at the American one, let's go with the GrW 34 model.
Alright, so far so good, put it in Tier 2 and then, make the mortar pit only unlockable besides the Bofors, so one upgrade, unlocks these 2 emplacements, the Bofors and the Mortar pit, making it either 20 or 25/30 (35 at the max, or else the British player is investing a tad too much into a better in-direct fire and stalling teching) fuel and either the same man power cost or 200, I don't know. I was thinking of adding the mortar team to the AEC unlock but that would be mean limiting the British player too much in the in-direct fire department so if you don't choose Bofors + Mortar pit, you're basically stuck with the AEC and Base 25 pounders for the rest of the game as far as in-direct fire goes.
This is a stop gap solution to 3 problems, one is the whining about the bofors (increasing the unlock price, delaying it, effectively), the other is the whining about the mortar pit (same thing as the bofors I already mentioned), the 3rd is the need for a more mobile in-direct fire substitute for the mortar pit by default (not doctrinal one, as in the land mattress) for more mobile friendly and aggressive British players. Having the mortar pit be built without the mortars themselves is a nice idea, making it a sort of a fixed position which can be garrisoned with bonuses to the mortar's fire rate (or range) like the vicker's range bonus when garrisoned and at vet 1, the problem then would be that it would be a bit overlapping with the trench in terms of what it does. The only other problem I see here is if it's possible to do, I mean, in terms of modding I think it can be done, when built the mortar pit will spawn with the mortars but they won't be manned, but the idea here is not have the mortars be manned but make it so the mortar pit can accommodate the 2 types of support weapons, or even at least the mortars, but then again why the need for it when you have the trenches which are basically acting the same way?
As far as the mortar pit itself goes, making it spawn unmanned and in need to be either garrisoned or in range of the forward assembly is also a solution but a very costly one to the British player in terms of man power, which is very thinly stretched as it is with the cost of the squads themselves and their reinforcing, excluding the royal engineers.
Just my 2 cents on the subject as a modder and mostly British/OKW player, have a nice day. |
These aren't in the map rotation anymore.
Alright, let's clear things up here then.
Firstly you didn't say anything about the scenario you talking about being a 1v1/2v2 on an open map, second this is not the balance section so don't give me excuses about that, and thirdly, any change made affects the entire game, meaning it ruins it for the rest of us, those who aren't into the competitive scene and are purely playing the game for fun, and yes, I think that's a pretty valid reason, and no, I did make a mod, even 2 actually, but I abandoned them because they kept being broken from the constant updates. |
It's not, max barrage range LEIG outranges the pit by a mile.
Are you sure it wasn't vetted? Cause I think my leigs were under fire by the mortar pit I was targetting the other day. |
the sherman gun is more accurate on the move and the HE rounds does give the sherman better firepower against infantry.
penetration wise, they are about the same.
Oh right, I forgot about the gyroscopes mounted on the USF vehicles, or whatever that was.
But yeah, the size nerf is a tad too much if you ask me. |
I believe the Mortar pit's range is on par with the leig's one altho it becomes a problem when the Mortar pit is a bit behind a forward position that is under attack from a leig. That's when the leig's mobility comes into play while the mortar pit's static style is limiting it. |