I think the unit vs unit balance, especially the tank one, is in the good spot.
The problem with 4vs4 is that many people stopped playing OKW (justified or not), therefore, you have the 3-4 OST much more often. There are okay maps for full OST team, but then...
OST is a defensive with a slow-start:
• You will never get into a good position early game because other factions have a faster start. When OKW was there, sturms + kubel were going to win fuel every single time, so you only had to defend it with your mortars/mgs. MUCH easier job when you don't go into the already set-up Brits, or fog-of-war cons who can hurrah through the MG while it is being set up.
• You will be harassed by the VASP all the time. Unless it dives you, you cannot get in range to land the faust. The best counter to VASP is the 222, but 222 arrives seconds before the AEC.
• No light-armor to duel/counter Stuart/T70/AEC. When you have 3 Flamers/222s on the map among the players, the allies still have an edge with a single light vehicle.
• Panzerwerfer is good at stopping blobs. It isn't really good at wiping, attacking emplacements or vehicles. The animation itself delivers the payload slower than the first Katusha/Cal hit, so because of the higher delay, it is harder to predict the exact infantry's position on the move.
• Howitzer's performance is good, but I feel like they only work for a short period of time before recon + strike kills them, which is cheaper than building the howitzer. When you go to the commander with the howitzer, you sacrifice other useful things.
• Two things happened (which shouldn't have) this patch: loiter planes got buffed, HQs anti-air got nerfed. It is obvious that the Ostwind isn't capable of stopping loiter planes from unloading their payloads. Bofors anti-air is under-performing (or bugged) too.
• Mechanized (and old sturms) were really good at repairs. Now you have to rely on those slow-ass pioneers for repairs. Even if you play with OKW, there are much less mechanized-first players.
The chances of Allies getting the same factions are low, the chances of 4 OST are probably the highest in the game. Having mixed-factions to bring their superior qualities is a huge advantage. The drawbacks of the faction become obvious when you have 3-4 of the same.
I have complained of the Panther's performance before the patch, but perhaps it is under-performing against the allies tank-destroyers at the moment.
I don't know shit, wait for the OST expert opinions or the upcoming 4vs4 tournament to see competitive statistics.
THe round I was describing was 4 Ost vs a mixed Allies. |
"The panther is in a good place"
Panther needed buffs, but isn't the DPS of a lowly StuG still better than the Panther when it comes to killing enemy armor? It needed a buff, but I still don't see a reason to build it ATM if I need/want sheer tank killing power.
For me the Panther has always been a sort of Jack of all trades, master of none. For infantry killing the P4 could still outperform it, and for tank killing the StuG outperformed it.
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The patch hasn't changed enough to go from being top 13 to 1500. Its either a matchmaker issue, or its you. Matchmaker is a big problem in 4v4, but if you were capable of getting <13, then you should be able to carry your team to some degree to get wins. Are you always on top of damage / kills?
Id argue Ost got a small buff, thanks to get grens being cheaper, general performance of g43s, not having to deal with penals every game, easier to tech both t3 and t4 (needed in long 4v4 games) etc.
This last game that finally lead me to make this post (and I had planned this post before but decided to muscle through it) I had the most kills, 3rd least deaths (but only one with a positive KD ratio for that matter), and most captures. I usually get most kills/caps/least deaths, and often enough the most damage but not always of course.
I only lost one unit, an MG that was captured by the enemy, and my team was essentially, relatively effortlessly muscled off the map with not much effort on behalf of allies. Sure this is anecdotal since it's only one match, but the vast majority of matches I am now consistently losing, and my wins tend to be very hard fought and drawn out, rarely do we ever steamroll the opposing team in the opening, unlike before.
Unfortunately this game is going to have to be shelved. I am now losing about 80% of my matches, whereas before I was losing only 50%. And to me that extra 30% is patch related, because I didn't get shittier at the game all of a sudden, I've been playing COH as my #1 game in terms of hours invested over the past 12 years.
All the examples I gave, combined, can easily add up to a lot more losses for rounds that could have otherwise been won. |
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So many nerfs for Germans, I only play 4v4 random Ostheer, and I've gone from losing about 50% of my matches, to about 80% of my matches by my estimates. It's caused me to all but shelve the game in favor of other games.
This is more than a L2P issue, because even on my best games, my random teammates have been nerfed so hard in the patch, that's it never enough to over come this even if I try to play perfect.
I went from a rank in the low 100's, and at times even lvl 19, to now I'm a fucking lvl 11 in the thousands. And I'm not one to bitch about an entire COH Patch since I started playing in 2006, but THIS PATCH SUCKS.
I'll give a couple of examples.
Before the two biggest mistakes that OKW could make was #1 putting their trucks too far forward so they get mortared/katyusha'd to death, and #2, putting the truck in spawn so no one else on the team can use it for heal/reinforcement.
This patch encourages my teammates to put their heal truck in spawn, which means almost every game I have to put heal/reinfore bunkers on the field if I want to heal and reinforce instead of going all the way back to spawn for heal/reinforce. This patch has essentially gimped my teammates field presence compared to what it use to be. Before I didn't always have to do that if I had a decent OKW teammate, now I have to do it almost every match, which essentially means by early-mid I'm guaranteed to have to spend 300mp and 120muni on on field reinforce/heal bunkers if I want to maintain field presence without retreating all the way back to my spawn for a heal bunker, or the OKW's heal truck in his spawn.
My other example is I've lost my P4 as a shock unit. Now the costs to upgrade to tier 3 are so great, you're boxed into always going T2 first, regardless of your fuel advantage. Randoms that do go fast tier 3 and aren't aware of the nerfs, are gimping the team by not building any tier 2 units. Meanwhile I see that British Players are still allowed 6 minute AEC's.
Early caches were enough to gimp the whole team under the old system. Now with the increased costs of fuel/muni caches, randoms that do eary/fast caches are gimping the team even more than they were by failing to build units in place of now more costly fuel/muni caches.
I dunno, I've never been one to say a whole patch fuckin' sucks, I dunno, I guess the closest patch to suck this hard was back in COH1, when it allowed for PE halftracks with MG's that could pin, a PE player with a marginal amount of skill could back an American player all the way back into his base and pin his rifles before he could get any midgame counters and effectively end the round, that and the T17 spam that use to reliably kill KT's, Tigers, Jagdpanthers and anything less than that. Roo spam was a weak strategy that could reliably reward low skill players with easy wins for a long time, and then was replaced by faghound spam, but that wasn't the fault of an entire patch, just something that was constantly overlooked through several patches. |
Before even discussing this, you must consider if you are skilled enough to use a sniper.
Anyone can use a mortar with some degree of effeciency, whereas a sniper takes a lot more handling and skill to use effectively.
As a rule of thumb, if you cannot consistently get 15 kills with a sniper, you are not able to use them cost effectively.
Overall I would say that the two units are so different that any real comparison is a bit strange. they are neither mutually exclusive nor dependant on each other and both can be used to effectively support you on the battlefield.
Haha, "skilled enough to use a sniper". My sniper micro is godly. It use to be really good in the COH1 days when you needed to wait for the sniper to reveal himself and then you unclicked holdfire.
I got 14,000+ hours in COH2 and COH1 combined, pretty sure my sniper micro is ok. |
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Yea I'm just wondering this. I mean what do snipers do, that mortars can't? And what do mortars do that snipers can't? Seems to me that the smoke ability of the mortar makes it a lot more useful, is that just me? |
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The game heavily focuses on combat first and foremost. In Starcraft, i have to gather resources, whereas COH is one where you battle over territory for your resources. Not to mention cover system and other game mechanics. Strictly due to the reverse gear, I'll never go back to COH1. |
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How will this affect the research and development of COH3? |
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4v4 is all I play |
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In a recent thread I was, at the time, infuriated that I do lose with a level of consistency, within the first 10 minutes of a round, whenever I'm facing an aggressive and well supported Urban-Defense open.
Someone in the thread noted I could do an oddball T1 opening, with 2-4 mortars.
Right I do 2 openings generally
#1 MG/Gren/Gren/Gren
#2 MG/Gren/Mortar/Mortar/Gren (It's not always in that exact order, sometimes it's (MG/Mortar/Gren/Mortar/Gren or a variation of that).
But you know hypothetically, I could try changing up my t1 opening to something totally different from what I'm doing. Particularly when it comes to handling Urban Defense players on city maps.
Can anyone give me some ideas on some different openings I might try with the T1?
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