Only thing is that reposition time in buildings... |
But since none of those things are the case I think the abilities need to stay the way they are to be worth their price tag.
So, would you say they are well balanced against each other - cost / return wise? |
Isn't the time 1.5 seconds when not shot at? I do spam movemant order, since i feel it helps se squad get back on its feet again. But mine get reliably unsupressed when not shot at, smoke is your friend. |
I'll try to conclude what i've seen and read. I'll jump from facts, to observed problems and try to propose some solutions that keep the fun and get rid of the gardening. Wall of text incoming!
JU-87:
Costs: 200 Mun
Duration: 75 Seconds (!)
Damage: A lot
Range: My guess is 35 radius (Check Second 21, the Sherman was standing at the edge of the circle)
Reaction Time: None for first Strafe (Red Smoke, 3 Secs till plane aims, 3 seconds later payload is delivered); this should give enough time to reverse out of range before 2cnd one aims. But no time should be lost.
Ability to hit moving targets: Projectiles feel extremly fast. From experience i'd say more miss when fast reverse on a road for example, but bullet travel time is insane compared to rockets. (All tanks stood still in the movie)
Conclusion: Very potent for area denial, first run will score damage for sure. If correctly used it can stop a tank based attack nicely, acompany your own tank based attack, or snipe Katyuashas.
Gameplay problem:
1.)First strafe can not be evaded, which is ok for tanks. But the damage is inflicted so short after the smoke, that its extremly easy to follow up and get the kill. No unsopported P47 can do that, cause it takes ages for payload delivery. And Blitzkrieg.
2.)Its targets are, Is-2 apart, all mildly armored and of kinda low health. It onehits jacksons and light vehicle stuff.
3.)Soviet Tierstructure denys Anti Air to everything but T3 play. Anti air costs, if not included in playerstrategy 150 fuel. AA-ht of muerica costs a lot.
4.)Even with anti air, you can not just sit outside the circle and shoot the plane down like an injured duck(no offence eend), like you can mighty P-47 circling for potential pray, cause it doesnt. You enter the area with a worthy target, plane comes for 6 seconds and is gone. Your bait takes the damage ad you pray to rngesus.
Metagameplayproblem: Concluding the points above, it brings extremly potent 75 seconds of area denial and can snipe high value targets in the proces. Its very costly, risky and uncertain to conter.
Now one should maybe consider faction balance and different metagame more when comparing it to P-47. But it should be judged not in comparision to another abilty, but in light of the role it plays or can play anyway.
To the observed game: Weak gameplay made it all the more devastating, maybe even the su could have been saved. But only if he expected the strafe and reversed all the way, forcing tiger into the mine. After that the right side should have been avoided for the next 75 seconds. I guess it was a game changing moment.
Solution (maybe?):
1.) Change the way it works to circling for tagets, so there is a reliable chance to conter it, if one decides to do so.
2.)Delay payload delivery, maybe without changing the amount of damage. So the unavoidable damage is done in safe area, when reaction time of the victim is spot on.
3.)Fix the hitchance so fast reversing light vehicles are save enough to not be onehotted if reaction time is spot on.
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Looks like a Panzer 4 to me.
Doesnt it have sloped armor and a odd looking turret? |
Can some tell at 7:01 what kind of Tank it is? |
Words. Lots of them. Did read, you should too
Very nice essay about the problem. I do agree with the core analysis and am also a noob in Mapmacking.
So, to you creaters of worlds out there: Is it possibe (and not to much work) to make a test map, just scaling the open terrain in between all the stuff on a popular teammap? So whoever wanted to, could test the thesis in live action environment? As this would be the easy and lazy way to do it, other then enlarging it with new terrain and more points. |
Isn't the problem that a Kübel, unlike any other mg team that is flanked, can drive backwards, and fullfil his role like nothing happened. A man based mg cant do that. You get flanked, your done. To me loosing that ability would require a longer set up time for the supression dude, thats about all to make this unit balanced in the early game. Easy math behind it, gets faster to a new spot. But takes longer to deploy. Same effectivness achieved. |
Thread: RNG12 Oct 2014, 07:41 AM
words
Mr.King could you maybe just record a bunch of your games for the sake of sience? Focus on one unit, or make it a couple if you got the time. Record your viewings and cut out the fights involving those 2 units(propably a lot of early game fights). And then post the thing to youtube, so we can discuss your data.
As it has been stated, there are a lot of non-rng variables a really good player can know about and use to his advantage. Not knowing about them and afterwards judging what happened in that particular engagement is prone to produce misinterpretations. And the worst it hinders any improvement in the situation. Not saying you dont know your shit.
Just small example, con vs gren fight. both got vision at max range. con perspective: u shoot it out from green cover for a few secs, when u see the mgdude starting to reload or when u anticipate it, you oorah the shit out of that distance between the two of you and get in close. You throw ur nade when in range to deny the gren cover and win propably anyway, but still you pray to rngesus. Or you just run in head on, loose 2 models in the process and another when throwing that molly and are heavily dependend on rngesuses love for you molly, but propably loose anyway to a better player who anticipates your molly and dodges it mostly. |
...Yours on the otherhand doesnt highlight why i am so wrong. You're so much of a devoted fanboy you don't want this game balanced.
Your claim was Allies are favored in terms of munitions income and the strength of their abilties/upgrades. As has been pointed out, that is a false statement. I didnt want to repeat that. Who spends Mun for what, was my constructive blink. Sorry for the rest of the post, as it might have been a little toxic. Point still stands.
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... obers get lmg for free. Falls get 4 fg42's for free. Mg's on tanks are really cheap. invest in shreks and u can easily deny all allied armor flanks.
Basically l2p...
you just need to be very selective of which munition abilities are important to you. priority #1 should be shreks, and after that it is up to your discretion and what the situation calls for...
Basically what is done here is balance early t0 Schrecks with you needing to decide if you need them (Sov t1, US t2) or can spam nades u dont have to research. In later stages u dont need mun to unlock the potential of your infantrie (besides fuss), like dp-42, lmg 42, bars, 1919bars, thompsons, ppsh. So can keep laying mines, throwing nades and equip even the last volk with a schreck.
You made a post that defeated itself, not a good basis fo discussion. You did do that by just picking few aspects of the whole picture and dramatizing the shit out of it. Even tho you seem to be able to play this game on a half decent level.
Btw squad wipes due to squad size is an etnirely different topic.
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