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Tanks aside, imagine how brutal this would be against light vehicles. 1 AT nade on a 222 = better pray you had Pioneers babysitting it. Many light vehicles are already about as fragile as they can afford to be. |
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I think giving the US a sniper would make the Ostheer/USF matchup completely absurd. Snipers are already effective against the Ost 4-man squads, the balancing factor with Soviets is that Conscripts aren't that good and by going T1 you sacrifice MGs. This means Soviet Sniper teams can still be threatened by Ostheer infantry pushes. Basically, Snipers come at the expense of the 'meat' of your army.
In the case of USF because of how capable Riflemen are, Ostheer would have pretty much no ability to counter a well-microed Sniper other than just rushing a 222 and hoping for the best. If not for the OPWagen, OKW would suffer similarly apart from Panzerfusiliers.
Also, as others have said just because 1 faction has access to a unit, doesn't mean the others have some sort of 'right' to it. You have to show some sort of balance need, otherwise you are just arbitrarily reducing faction diversity. |
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I'm not sure this is an issue unique to CoH2 - I've got friends who play SC2 who make similar complaints. I think that with the rise of huge MOBAs such as LoL and DotA 2, the community for most 'core' RTS games is pretty small. This results in a worse matchmaking experience because for the top players, the system has to match them against relatively low-skill players to avoid obscene queue times. |
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I dunno guys. After the M3 and Kubel, do we really want more immediately build-able vehicles in the game? Those things seem to be fundamentally hard to balance, and my personal opinion is that they dumb down the early game a lot compared to pure infantry play. I'd rather they just fixed the Kubel. |
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Problem is, its very similar to the M20 Utility Car but I feel like M20 is a better option. It doesn't have canister shot, but it is cheaper, available earlier, more survivable (thanks to smoke), has the amazing AT mine ability and even gives you a Bazooka squad for emergencies.
Abusing Canister Shot is OK, but you are pretty much relying on RNG at that point since if you don't get squad wipes, use of the ability isn't sustainable. Also, if Recon Support ever somehow became popular I'm pretty sure Canister Shot would be nerfed, since on its own it is kinda OP. Then again, they never really fixed it on the Stuart in CoH1, so... |
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I think we might be overselling how bad BARs are. While currently they are not worth the upgrade, in my experience they do have a noticeable effect on squad DPS (albeit far less than the Gren LMG, which costs the same).
As for Bazookas vs Shrecks, one thing I would really like to see is for long-range accuracy for these weapons to be standardised. At the moment, Bazookas miss frequently whereas Volksgrenadiers with Panzershrecks seem to have little trouble hitting vehicles even at absolute max range. I think Panzershreck accuracy should be tuned down to more closely match that of Bazookas. This would make Bazooka balance a bit more fair, and have the added plus of nerfing Volk Shreck blobs, which are a bit too effective against all targets IMO. |
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A fuel cost would be half a fix. It would give the OKW player a much more significant cost/trade-of for using it, which is needed in my opinion. It would also make losing it more punishing. However, it wouldn't change the fact that USF has no effective counter to a well-microed Kubelwagon. Every unit needs to be counter-able at every stage of the game in which it can appear, regardless of cost.
For this reason, I think a setup/tear down mechanic is the way to go. This would actually reward flanking the damn thing: at the moment, it is very hard to exploit even a very well executed flank until Rifles hit Vet 1 and gain access to AT nades.
This change also exposes the problem with the design intention behind the Kubel however: it is being expected to pull double duty as a suppression platform and a mobile scout/sniper hunter. I think at this point it is clear that it cannot fulfil both without being OP in at least one of them. |
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I'm not sure about the truck delay, it would help the current situation but I'd rather they just removed the ability to push/damage buildings. This would still keep the ability for OKW to do stuff like an early med truck, which I'm fine with.
The Dodge is a way more tricky situation. As we've seen in the past with the M3 and now the Kubel, light vehicles available from the start of the game are extremely tricky to balance, and no fun for anyone in the process. Remember how it took for the M3 to hit the sweet spot? I think the Dodge is just a bit too good for 0 CP, and nerfing it would just make it useless. It is a 20 fuel unit after all, and needs to be worth the cost. Frankly, I'd rather the Mechanized Company was reworked to make it more about mid-game light vehicle play, but that's probably a fantasy. |
Veto Langreskaya, Crossing in the Woods, and Semoisky Summer
I like those maps but Kubeljesus just makes them close to autolose.
I don't really mind Crossing or Semoskiy against OKW - on Crossing I just split my forced pretty evenly since the Kubel can only go to one fuel point. Semoskiy has tons of buildings that help, though admittedly on Summer it can be brutal if you get shut out of the centre early against a Kubel. I've played OKW players who base their whole strategy purely on taking and fortifying the chokepoint at your base. |
Well the Raketenwerfer 'weakness' in comparison to the PAK is already taken into account by being a lot cheaper then the Pak, not to mention it can garrison buildings and retreat(so you are having your cake and eating it there) but I do take your point that units should be partly judged in the context of the army they are produced by.
This still, however, does not counter the point that the OKW have a list of units of which the soviets would give their right arm for. And the soviets have arguably nothing at all the OKW would really want.
A simple swap of same role units/weapons demonstrates this. Ask a soviet if he/she would swap doctrine PTRS for Schrecks? Swap Kats for Stukas? Swap scout cars for kubels. Swap t70 for luch. Swap anything for Su76. All will be met with a resounding "yes".
The reverse is not true. The OKW player would not be happy with the swap.
And this is an underlying symptom of the diagnosis that those units are over powerd (or alternativly their alternatives are underpowerd). Other symptoms include the 80-20% search rates in multiplayer and the recently released figures showing the german dominance of the win rates.
Note that this is not a OKW are overpowered thread, back in the early days of "God" mortar call ins for the soviets, the german player would have loved to have had a god mortar and the soviet player would not have wanted to let the german have it. Hence I would have argued the item was overpowered, and indeed it has taken several nerfs, and its not particularly hotly debated anymore.
Well, its not really as simple as 'swapping' since this suggests some sort of direct equivalence in role that doesn't exist in many cases.
Anyway, here's a list of some Soviet units that would make OKW a lot better:
Sniper team, Mortar (especially 120mm), Guards (for the button, imagine this comboed with Volks), T34 (a medium tank), ISU-152, KV-8... and probably a few more, since this list only took be about 30 secs
I believe any approach based on comparing single units is of very limited use, since you have to factor in overall faction design and potential combinations. |
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