https://youtu.be/_WXwApviEd4?t=40m10s
Looks like even for top players, the same thing happens...
I guess maybe its a balance issue rather than a L2P issue? I kinda like that Tommies not having an AT snare makes the Brits a bit unique, but seems like given how good the 222 is and how quickly it can be out, Brits are really gonna struggle until there is something you can do to at least fend them off with Tommies. |
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I still haven't really found the solution, and honestly I've pretty much given up on Brits in 1v1 as a result. I'm sure I'll come back to them after a while, but 222 rush every game is just so fucking boring.
My best tactic is to just try and hold onto early fuel, rush tech and get both a sniper and an RE squad. Then, try and nail the inevitable 222 with a mine. Most Ost players will be pretty aggressive with that thing to try and rush the sniper so it is sometimes possible to bait them over the mine, but overall still a pretty weak and inconsistent solution. Not to mention, even if you get the kill the second 222 will still be out long before AEC.
AT tommies kinda help, but not all that much. They can't really threaten a single 222 since they kill it pretty darn slow, and 2 222s just mow them down. |
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Personally, I think free/accelerated vet is something that absolutely should not be in CoH 2. I'm glad Relic removed all instances of it. The point of the Vet mechanic is to reward players for squad preservation, for keeping early game squads alive for a long time, by making those squads stronger and giving them access to better abilities. A lot of squads are balanced around being viable late-game only with vet for this reason (e.g. Grens). Free vet in any form completely removes this dynamic. Need more anti-infantry late game? Just buy a Vet 3 Gren. That's a solution which makes the game simpler and worse, because you should have had to keep the Gren squad alive for a time to get access to its Vet 3 power. Not to mention, free Vet for some factions but not others makes the game very weirdly asymmetric.
Also, all three of the doctrines you name are viable in their current forms. They just aren't as dominant (read: OP) as they were before. |
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Holy crap, so much of this thread seems like its based on a massive confusion of two things...
Let's be clear. There are two things being talked about here. One is balance. The other is something like 'good design.' What I mean by this is whether or not a faction is satisfying to play and play against, has a diverse set of units and strategies, has good internal balance e.t.c.
Soviets are clearly balanced, in the sense of having a decent winrate. As others have pointed out, Soviets were the most picked Allied faction in ESL. This wouldn't be the case if the faction was just trash.
HOWEVER. You can believe the faction is balanced while also believing the design is bad. Those two positions are perfectly consistent. In fact, that's what I think. The bad design of the Soviets is evident from the fact that T1 is almost completely ignored by everyone and is virutally unusuable, and from the fact that the vast majority of doctrines are in the same boat. The fact that so many people resist going T4 in favour of call-ins is more evidence. The tech pattern of the whole faction is just wonky, with tech costs being very expensive compared to other factions and tech being delayed further by mandatory upgrades like AT nades. I think Soviets need a moderate rework to be in a better place.
Threads like these would go much better if y'all could distinguish balance from other values relating to game design. |
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I think its definitely true that both mobile and immobile howitzers are under-performing to quite a noticeable degree. The current reason why they look really bad in comparison with rocket arty is that rocket arty like Calliopes and Katyushas saturate the target area pretty quickly, giving a high probability of kills if fired at a target rich environment. With howitzers, on the other hand, unless you nail something on the first shot a good opponent will reposition.
In my opinion, this shouldn't change. I think the primary function of howitzers should be to dig an enemy out of an entrenched position. That said, as others have pointed out there are several reasons why howitzers are unnattractive. I would change quite a few things to improve this:
1)For mobile howitzers, reduce the fuel cost. Giving up another tank for a Priest or Sexton is just a bad deadl. The 40 fuel cost for Land Mattresses seems like a good benchmark to me. Lets be honest, even with this change most people aren't going to make use of those units because they're in bad docs. But at a lower cost, they do stand a chance.
2) Reduce the CP cost of all howitzers. Usually, by the time howitzers are unlocked the game has become more mobile due to tanks being on the field. If the CP costs of howitzers were lower (again, more like the Land Mattress, they would be good counters to static, defensive play in the midgame (e.g. Brit emplacements, OKW aggressive truck placements).
3) Make immobile howitzers.... mobile. Basically, make then work like the ISG/Pack Howie/Land Mattress, but even slower. Still can't retreat. This would mean that by repositioning between volleys, you can avoid big call-ins like the dive bomb.
The MP cost for howitzers is probably about right, 600 MP is steep but any less and they would probably be too available. |
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Recently, I've been coming across an Ostheer strat in my Brit games which I'm at a loss for how do deal with. I wanted to know if anyone had any advice.
Basically, the Ost player is very aggressive and targets my cut-off with a Gren/Sniper/MG combo which Tommies can't really deal with, and uses a Pio squad or two to cap his own side of the map. He then techs up as fast as possible to get a 222 out very early, followed usually by another 222 straight away. To make matters worse, some Ost players have realised Brit players don't have access to a minesweeper in the very early game, and have been spending their early munis on S-minefields on vital points like fuel point, cut-off e.t.c.
I have no idea how best to counter this. It feels like there are just too many different threats that all require different counters. I need a sniper of my own to threaten his and take out the MG team, I need Sappers to clear mines and I need an AT gun to prepare for the 222. When the Ost player techs fast, waiting for an AEC just doesn't feel like an option since it comes out too late. How do I deal with this kind of thing? It feels like against good sniper micro there's nothing to do but try and avoid the area of the map where the sniper is, but this lets the Ost player take whatever part of the map he wants, even if that means my cut-off. |
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For what its worth (being serious for a moment), Romeo mentioned this on stream and he said he had a 'very reliable' source. He seemed to be 100% convinced. |
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For the armoured car, I find you can often counter this by using your first 50-100 munis on teller mines. Works very well on maps like Road to Kharhov that have roads going through natural chokepoints, which the AEC will probably use. Teller mines 1-shot the AEC, and usually the Brit player will be very aggressive with the AEC when he gets it and won't have Engis with sweepers. If you get the kill with it, it means the Brit player has spent like 75 fuel (tech cost + the AEC) for literally nothing. |
Yup. OKW making a cute little city with their repair shop, general hospital and flak building.. oh and throw in a PAK43.. literally just as cancer as UKF sim city.
What makes things worse is OKW have ALL the tools to deal with sim city (stuka/LeIG) both non doc.. what do UKF have? Fucking nothing apart from the shitty base arty.
Have you tried taking out Simcity emplacements with the new commander with a LeIG? Clearly not. It takes a very, very long to damage mortar pits or bofors once the advanced emplacements upgrade has been purchased. And it dies pretty fast to the mortar pit bombardment. And even if its out of range of the mortars, it will die to the Counter Battery ability the new commander has. It usually wipes the LeIG with just a few shots, and on most 1v1 (and some 2v2) maps, it is impossible to get the LeIg out of range of the base arty while still shooting at emplacements. The Stuka is better, but with brace it does less than half the health of an emplacement and the CD means it is very easy to just repair the emplacements between shots.
UKF have the most important counter to OKW base structures: the AT gun. Just put it at max range, protected by an MG, and attack ground. It really isn't very hard. Perhaps play some more Axis before you try and make points about balance. |
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At the moment something definitely needs to change, not so much because emplacements are IMBA but because some factions/commanders don't really have an effective counter. OKW really suffer from this. I think the main problem is that they don't have a long range AT gun that can attack ground on emplacements from range to chip them down. Raketenwerfer range is about the same as Bofors so you can't get close enough for this to work. Unfortunately, I don't think buffing the Raketenwerfer would be a good idea since then OKW would be too good against tanks.
I think maybe what is needed is some kind of non-doctrinal artillery the OKW can build (like the Wehr 105mm Howie), maybe unlocked by teching to Schwerer Panzer HQ. That way OKW can map control -> tech and break the Sim CIty if the Brit player doesn't play properly.
I don't think removing brace is the answer. Before brace, emplacements have always been shit in Coh2 because its to easy to get close with a fast AT gun/vehicle and blow them up. Brace is needed as a mechanic for emplacements to be viable at all. If I was gonna nerf emplacements I would make them repair slower (like, very slowly) so a series of sustained attacks can eventually wear them down. |
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