Mechanized strenght vs okw has nothing to do with any bugs, its all about wc51 and cav rifles synergy.
Easy8 is countered hard by panther, its slower than 75mm and has no chance to deflect shots while struggling to penetrate. You are hyping this combination so much but in reality its weaker than heavy cav (while requiring tons of fuel).
You know very well they wont fix any of the broken okw stuff. Command panther will stay, just as volks spam, jli and now even double schrek 250mp inf and call in tiger. Usf needs good stuff to counter this.
Cav on Dodge is all about cheese, or you succeed in wiping stuff fast early game or you end with 2 units that become more of a burden with time.
Panther counters Ez8, nothing wrong here. But Ez8 remains a good thread to Panther if picked out of cover and can defend itself in most situation that doesn't involve you having over extended. Ez8 is a good compromise to deal reasonable infantry damage and not being such an easy target for panther. OKW player is in the same situation here, he can't really go for Pz4 vs your Ez8 thus less AI potential. |
Ofcourse, almost nothing changed since usf rework and commander revamp when it comes to usf vs okw early game EXCEPT new commanders with strong early call in units. If you choose to play, lets say, heavy cav you still have the same bad early game matchup against okw which puts you behind when you reach mid and late game. Thats why most people switched from instalocking heavy cav to things like mechanized or armor. These doctrines are pretty much the only "fix" usf got in terms of their viability against okw early game dominance.
Mechanized is a cheese strat vs OKW because if you fail with your dodge/Cav there is nothing else in the doctrine. It is popular today because of the dodge bug but that pretty much all.
A commander with Ranger, Ez8 and Calliope gives you the upper hand on infantry fight with the rangers, Ez8 denying the Pz4 and remains a good compromise vs Panther while still dealing good damage vs infantry and the Calliope to harass his trucks.
OKW is broken at the moment, all 3 allied factions are forced to use cheese early vehicle strat to counter the volkspam should be balance team's first consideration instead of new commanders. |
It wouldnt be instapick. Mechanized is still stronger against okw than this potential commander. Armor with ass engies still offers stronger early game. Heavy cav still offers call in tank, superior in every way to easy8 and requiring less fuel to get (you can skip tech). Infantry still offers better artillery (better commander for team games). It would end up somewhere in the middle of the pack. Simply put, easy8 is not a call in so it wont be a challange to command panther or command tiger.
You're assuming people would still insta pick early game counters even if they can have elite infantry + premium tank + calliope?
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I believe you're overthinking it dude lol but I agree that Rifle and Tac Support Companies need a rework.
If you don't see how a new commander with 3 callin of elite infantry, premium tank and onmap arty is not at the same level than every other USF commander, I can't help you more. Not saying this would be too powerful or else, just that this commander would become insta pick in 90% of games.
The only reason why it wouldn't is if the Calliope stay trashy as it is and I'm not even sure of that.
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My guess is you'll never see Ez8/76mm and Calliope on the same doctrine because it breaks USF commander's design rules.
If you suddenly gives USF with Ez8 and Calliope and make Calliope relevant again, then why would you pickup any other doctrine?
Remember that USF design is made around lacks and not synergies.
USF has to lack of something from the following list:
Elite Infantry
Premium medium
Onmap Arty
A commander with Ranger + Premium tank + Onmap Arty would completely break the rule and that what you're asking for by adding Ez8 to Urban Assault.
USF is about forbidden synergies.
Elite infantry can be associated with Premium tank or with Onmap Arty but Premium tank can't be associated with Onmap arty.
Premium tank and Onmap Artillery can't be associated with strong offmap arty. Only exception is Mechanized with the Jeep. With premium tanks or Onmap Arty you get Willy Peter, Time on Target, Strafing run or 205mm. But not bombing run or 188 callin barrage. Don't get me wrong, those weak barrages have their use but they are clearly specific and they could all of them being replaced by the 188mm barrage with at the minimum the same effect.
Callin M8 light vehicle can't be associated with a callin ATgun (too strong synergy you know)
etc...
Let's just take a simple example here: Tiger + Stuka run. Or Tiger + fragbomb and Strafing run. Do you imagine a second Relic associating in the same Commander the Pershing and Bombing run together?
This is how USF is design and, in my opinion, the reason why the new USF commander feel so uninteresting because almost of possible synergies allowed for that faction are already covered. What USF really needs isn't a new commander but fixing the Calliope and Rifle Doctrines at least so both become viable again.
Rifle company is already, on paper, a great doctrine for urban maps
Tactical Support is also great doctrine on paper for open maps, as much as Infantry company.
They just need to fix them.
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Dream team Urban Defense
CP0 - Riflenade
CP2 - Smoke
CP4 - M8
CP4 - Rangers
CP9 - Calliope |
The problem is that at 7 minutes, with a couple of g43 upgrade , usf infantry will be shredded until a double bar upgrade that could keep rifles competitive, but not stronger than fusiliers. On long range maps you have no chance to reach a close combat position. I think people underestimate this unit , it has an amazing survivability combined with vision and snare, i think it is the only elite infantry with snare actually.
Falls also have snares. |
Sometime I wonder if there not a strong biais in favor of OKW inside that balance team group. How can 250mp 5men squad with either pshrek or G43/+1man upgrade on CP0 callin squad can pass the conceptual's discussion stage is beyond me. Oh an yes with Tactical movement on top of it...
I have the feeling that when its goes for this particular faction, any sense of balance's consideration goes away. We will end up with the same problem than JLI, OP but hey "we're closely monitoring it!!!"
USF:
Riflenade on RE seems to be completely redundant with the mortar, the pak and the Scott. Why wouldn't you simply add WP barrage on the Mortar, I mean if we are here to make redundant stuff, let's have it useful.
Blades, honestly just add the Ez8 and stop with those upgrades that nobody play with, if at least they were coming natively on shermans but no, you need to pay munition for it on top of munition for the .50
If you really don't want to give the Ez8 here, merge blade with the .50 upgrade at the very minimum.
Smoke is ok
Rangers are ok
Calliope is still bad.
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The difference between USF building a ton of T0 and UKF building a ton of T0 is UKF heavy T0 is the dominant strategy right now and USF heavy T0 is so bad the faction was reworked to avoid it.
You're right in that UKF will have to pay a teching cost Ostheer's already paid with a T2 opening, but by that point upkeep and reinforcement cost have muddied the waters.
Who has the advantage at that point is down to map control and manpower bleed, and that's much harder to assess and predict. I think you'd need to playtest it to really get a feel for the dynamic beyond the initial build order.
Well since you made in on paper, I thought it would be important to keep it in line on paper. Now from a realistic point of view, its all depend on what you get with that early T2. You can't reasonably think that with such a big change the meta will still be the same. |
Why? UKF doesn't need tech for any mentioned units there.
Because Teching provides new abilities and units. With the same amount of manpower Ostheer is able to field the same amount of unit + teching progression while UKF still need to tech to reach the same level of opportunities.
Similarly we could argue that it would be perfectly fine vs USF since USF can field as many riflemen squads for the same price. |